Why does SE hate melee dps?

[KogaDrake]

So I disagree with the OP about melee being lower in DPS, but you have to factor in two things. 1. boss AoE down time from DPSing, and 2. the rotations that melee use (they are too complex for all players and many try to do too complex for their skill level and mess it up resulting in lowered dps, or the super complex rotation does not work on boss XX due to the number of missed GCD from AoE dodging).

The one and only issue I see is in the lack of utility skills (or conditions required to use them) for melee classes. Look at turn 2 of coil, optimal silencing is done via 2 bards (high DPS, silence, songs, and mobile ranged to help moving rot around), but if other classes had a reliable of GCD silence that did not say require a specific stance I think their would be alot less 2 bard coil teams. What the game needs is other options for silence by melee classes, or simply reduce the cooldown of blunt arrow to 15sec (1/2 the time) so a single bard can do all the silencing; both options would make less likely that people would look to not bring melee. Lets be honest, one of the main reasons only one melee gets in many groups is not the DPS of them, its the better utility (which is required) of other classes. Yes 2 PLD or a PLD/BRD can do the silences, but its harder and everyone tries to build optimal easiest groups these days.

[Trasias]

Similarly geared DPS currently in my Raid group at Turn 4 in COIL, along with their DPS generated:

1. Monk
2. Dragoon / Bard (a tie, if you will)
3. Summoner

[AccountBanned]

I'm not complaining about my monk not being strong and I don't even know how he stacks up against other DPS really. My only issue is that groups don't tend to always want me (A monk) in a group. Coil is an example as I've been denied for coil a few times and told "melee DPS really isn't ideal for coil".

I don't run that parcers program but instead I go from what I personally see. When I run AK in a group and the other DPS is a Dragoon, the dungeon takes a lot longer. However, when the DPS is me and a Bard the dungeon is completed far quicker. This has been tested with a +1 Dragoon (I'm also relic and just obtained +1) and a non-relic Bard who still completes AK faster than the +1 Dragoon.

I think Titan HM is a bad example as the only real time that damage is essential (heart) is an easy time for both melee and ranged DPS to do damage.

[Trasias]

I'm not complaining about my monk not being strong and I don't even know how he stacks up against other DPS really. My only issue is that groups don't tend to always want me (A monk) in a group. Coil is an example as I've been denied for coil a few times and told "melee DPS really isn't ideal for coil".

I don't run that parcers program but instead I go from what I personally see. When I run AK in a group and the other DPS is a Dragoon, the dungeon takes a lot longer. However, when the DPS is me and a Bard the dungeon is completed far quicker. This has been tested with a +1 Dragoon (I'm also relic and just obtained +1) and a non-relic Bard who still completes AK faster than the +1 Dragoon.

I think Titan HM is a bad example as the only real time that damage is essential (heart) is an easy time for both melee and ranged DPS to do damage.

It's all about players knowing their rotations - that's it.

[AccountBanned]

It's all about players knowing their rotations - that's it.

Not trying to sound mean but that really had nothing to do with what I said.

It's not like I've ran AK only once with a Dragoon and once with a Bard...I, like everyone else, have done many many AK runs and constantly find that Bards make the run far quicker. Again, I personally don't care that they're strong. The only thing I would want is to have people want a melee class as much as they want a Bard in the group.

[Trasias]

Not trying to sound mean but that really had nothing to do with what I said.

It's not like I've ran AK only once with a Dragoon and once with a Bard...I, like everyone else, have done many many AK runs and constantly find that Bards make the run far quicker. Again, I personally don't care that they're strong. The only thing I would want is to have people want a melee class as much as they want a Bard in the group.

I'm trying to tell you that, perhaps, the dragoons in your party were bad at their job/rotation.

As I mentioned in a prior post, I've noticed DPS in this order with competent individuals: Monk > Dragoon / Bard > Summoner > Black Mage

[Naelle]

Not trying to sound mean but that really had nothing to do with what I said.

It's not like I've ran AK only once with a Dragoon and once with a Bard...I, like everyone else, have done many many AK runs and constantly find that Bards make the run far quicker. Again, I personally don't care that they're strong. The only thing I would want is to have people want a melee class as much as they want a Bard in the group.

Not trying to sound mean but yes it does. Bard is by far the easiest DPS class to use. Player skill does make a difference. I play with dragoons and bards and they do very even dps/damage on almost every boss/instance we've parsed. People don't want to bring melee because they want to eliminate the possibility of a bad player in good gear.

[KogaDrake]

Not trying to sound mean but yes it does. Bard is by far the easiest DPS class to use. Player skill does make a difference....

While I may agree BRD is not a hard job, it too has an optimal rotation and following it or button mashing as everyone says is all is needed for BRD is a HUGE difference in DPS. so many 1 button bards around that do about 2/3 of optimal dmg.

Also judging classes DPS based on AK is a HORIBLE way to do it because just about no one who is geared and done AK many many times is actually trying to do their rotation, they are all button mashing with the exception of probably the bosses when they actually try somewhat, but AK is such a joke no one really does their full potential as it only shaves a min or two off a 25min run..

[Hachiko]

I don't feel this way at all and I love my Monk.

The only problem I have is a Monk's lack of utility in Coil turn 2 where people are trying to run with at least 2 BRD's for silencing. But I feel like a MNK would be even better at this. The only problem is that my Arm of the Destroyer is not even remotely as reliable as an Archer's silences. I have no idea why this is. I know for a fact that it is not accuracy as I had far more accuracy than the BRDs in my group. Lag? Maybe but in some cases I would get 2 AoD's off before the cast bar was finished.

It only silences while in oppo oppo stance.

As a monk I'm gonna do more damage than both of them over time guaranteed.

Until you run out of TP, and then every other class overtakes you because you have to drop Fracture from your rotation.

[Rivienne]

Until you run out of TP, and then every other class overtakes you because you have to drop Fracture from your rotation.

I feel like this whole discussions keeps missing the point of Jobs. This right here is the point in having bards, as opposed to archers. Bards have ballads designed to help other party members. They can restore TP or MP (or increase damage of BLM), yes at a cost of there own output. But that is the point. Each job has unique skills designed for party play. A party isn't a DPS vs DPS competition (until maybe pvp), it is about the most efficient and reliable party.

In my experience the most efficient party for any single big boss has two Monks, but it is chancy, because if you don't time it perfectly, out of TP. But a Bard + Monk resolves the chance, while still allowing nearly the same output. So you get heavy sustained DPS from Monk, rotations of high DPS and moderate DPS from Bard, and then LB from Monk. Synergy. They work together better than either works alone.