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  1. #31
    Player
    HurtigeKarl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    151
    Character
    Karl Hurtig
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Wazabi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wazabi View Post
    Scenario 1-current market
    Trader A:"My reservation price is 1000, but I'll see if the item will clear at 1500, and if it doesn't, I'll adjust it downward."
    Trader B:"Hmm...someone selling at 1500...I'll undercut him by selling at 1400...LOL"
    Trader A:"Ok...seems like there's competition...lets try 1300"
    Trader B:"WTF! I'll meet you at 1200"
    Trader A:"I'm going to sleep...gonna change to my reservation price...don't want to sell it at anything lower than 1000"
    Trader B:*RAGE!!!* "WTF!!! THIS MARKET SYSTEM SUX!!! THEY SHOULD PENALIZE ADJUSTMENTS! THEY SHOULD NOT ALLOWED UNDERCUT!!! THEY NEED TO CHANGE THE MECHANICS OR THE GAME IS GOING TO DIE!!!"


    Scenario 2 - price adjustment penalty implemented
    Trader A:"Hmm..my reservation price is 1000, but since I can't adjust my price freely, I'll just sell at 1000 since I've bought it dirt cheap and still makes a good profit from it"
    Trader B:*RAGE* "WTF???? WHY THE F ARE THESE IDIOTS SELLING AT SUCH RIDICULOUS LOW PRICE??? THIS SUX! THE MARKET IS BROKEN!! HE MUST BE A FARMER OR A BOTTER OR BOTH!!! THE MARKET NEEDS A MINIMUM PRICE MECHANISM SO THAT THESE IDIOT CANNOT SELL AT SUCH LOW PRICE!"
    Try following for the cheapest prices on the market:

    1 AM: 15000,15001, 15002
    4 AM: 14998, 14999, 15000
    7 AM: 14997, 14998, 14999

    and so on.

    Evidently your scenario 2 is preferable to this one. By enforcing scenario 2, you force people to reach the equilibrium price faster. Currently in many markets the equilibrium price is being reached, but it is going so slowly due to the silly 1 gil undercuts.

    The ones that benefit the most currently are sellers in market where everyone is a 1-gil undercutter, because they are are slowing down the rate at which the equilibrium price is reached from "above".

    This cements my belief that undercutting is in general fine, but silly undercutting like "1-gil" undercutting is not fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zigkid3 View Post
    Scenario 2 would make people sell at higher prices in response to more taxation.
    Not really if the current 5% loss is redesigned to be split into 2.5% loss on posting and 2.5% loss when the actual sale goes through. I.e. so that if you only posted once, you would lose the exact same amount, but if you reposted several times you would lose more.

    Actually, the equilbrium price would go up due to there still being a few people that would post more than once, but the actual lowest price would go down in markets previously dominated by 1-gil-undercutters. This is because the equilibrium price would be reached faster from above.
    (0)
    Last edited by HurtigeKarl; 10-15-2013 at 05:30 AM.

  2. #32
    Player
    Zigkid3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    272
    Character
    Miona Ayashi
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by HurtigeKarl View Post
    Try following for the cheapest prices on the market:

    1 AM: 15000,15001, 15002
    4 AM: 14998, 14999, 15000
    7 AM: 14997, 14998, 14999

    and so on.

    Evidently your scenario 2 is preferable to this one. By enforcing scenario 2, you force people to reach the equilibrium price faster. Currently in many markets the equilibrium price is being reached, but it is going so slowly due to the silly 1 gil undercuts.

    The ones that benefit the most currently are sellers in market where everyone is a 1-gil undercutter, because they are are slowing down the rate at which the equilibrium price is reached from "above".

    This cements my belief that undercutting is in general fine, but silly undercutting like "1-gil" undercutting is not fine.
    Scenario 2 would make people sell at higher prices in response to more taxation.
    (0)

  3. #33
    Player
    dragonflyseksparade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    232
    Character
    Dragonfly Seksparade
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    The best part about undercutters is when you run a little low on crafting mat A. So you put your entire remaining stock of mat A on the market using 2 retainers with different names so it looks like there's competition at the new really low price. Then you get undercut 5 minutes later, you buyout the stock that undercut you and remove your mats from the AH. #kthx #lolpriceless <-pun intended
    (2)

  4. #34
    Player
    Ex-SOLDIER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ul ' dah
    Posts
    46
    Character
    Angelos Cloudreaver
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by FAVisceglia View Post
    In the immortal–if paraphrased–words of Will McAvoy, what exactly would you like to replace Capitalism with?

    In less clever terms, this is working as intended.
    I couldn't have put it better myself. The whole Idea of penalizing someone because they undercut you on the AH is just a response of having it done to you. Dont get so butthurt when someone sells a little lower than you just to get an Item to sell. It is capitilism at it's most basic form.
    (0)


  5. #35
    Player
    Osha_Sohma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    17
    Character
    Osha Sohma
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    nevermind that there are enough players out there that trying to keep up with all the undercutters would require a theoretical crafter who doesn't undercut to be constantly updating their prices and getting soaked while other people can just throw their wares up for half his price and laugh, knowing he can't do anything about it without eating all his profits in AH taxes.
    (0)

  6. #36
    Player
    RagnaBeoulve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2
    Character
    Ragna Beoulve
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Carpenter Lv 50
    Create a 'fee' to post an item, and a smaller fee to 'adjust' prices already listed in the market. This would be the ideal solution.

    My argument for the 'fee' suggested is to achieve a more streamline price range. Currently, there are major players who stand by the market to undercut any and everything by 1g or 10g - which doesn't create competitive pricing, however will create a sale. The 'fee' system will force players to think competitively ahead of time and price competitively to make a sale, therefore enforcing competitive prices.

    For those who say "this is how free markets work" and offers no solution - 'claps' to you for your ignorance in failing to understand the root of the problem, however I've not the time to enlighten you on your narrow minds.
    (1)

  7. #37
    Player
    Toranja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    651
    Character
    Portus Cale
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 100
    RagnaBeoulve,

    You are wrong.
    (4)
    He doesn't mind us conducting trials so close to his bazaar, so long as he's properly compensated... Yes, Portus, we pay him in sorcery-blasted bird flesh. - Cocobygo

  8. #38
    Player
    Zigkid3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    272
    Character
    Miona Ayashi
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by RagnaBeoulve View Post
    Create a 'fee' to post an item, and a smaller fee to 'adjust' prices already listed in the market. This would be the ideal solution.

    My argument for the 'fee' suggested is to achieve a more streamline price range. Currently, there are major players who stand by the market to undercut any and everything by 1g or 10g - which doesn't create competitive pricing, however will create a sale. The 'fee' system will force players to think competitively ahead of time and price competitively to make a sale, therefore enforcing competitive prices.

    For those who say "this is how free markets work" and offers no solution - 'claps' to you for your ignorance in failing to understand the root of the problem, however I've not the time to enlighten you on your narrow minds.
    Oh please do enlighten me, I really wish to know.
    (So I may pick your reasoning apart.)
    (1)

  9. #39
    Player
    AideLee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    29
    Character
    Naya Na
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlox View Post
    Undercutters suck in 2.0, pure and simple.
    Get over it... it is basic economics. My suggestion is to undercut the undercutters! Good for you and good for the economy
    (3)

  10. #40
    Player
    cearka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    393
    Character
    Cearka Larue
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 60
    which means both X and Y were selling for too much to begin with and no one was willing to buy it till it hit half price. sounds fine to me. it's only worth what someone eventually buys it for anyway.
    (1)

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