Job Customization

[Steeled]

Or, read the thread.

I acknowledged that most "customization" in other games had best in slot choices which left you a few points to play with, and in some cases, no points. I know you're familiar with FFXI, so you quite well know that XI actually had choice for a lot of jobs. I mention red mage, and you focus on RDM in your sig, so clearly you're familiar with that.

This game presently offers you no choice in gearing. There is a best in each tier. There's no choice in stats, there's a best for that too. There's no real choice, for paladin at least, in what abilities you equip and it's not because there can't be, it's because they choices they offer are silly.

Heck, even the Myth-crafted items are linear upgrades from the non-crafted stuff. Nothing is lost, purely gained.

We may look different, but we're all ascending to be precisely the same thing on each job. Worse, there's not even any opportunity to get it wrong. If something is higher tier, you equip it, and the sub-job abilities practically place themselves.

Example: I looked up your character, and not at all to pick apart your choices, but simply that I wear, or have worn every single piece of gear you have save for Hoplite ring (in 100+ AKs, it has never dropped for me lol). That's my point. If you and I had access to the best paladin gear, we would probably be exactly the same.

[Duelle]

I know you're familiar with FFXI, so you quite well know that XI actually had choice for a lot of jobs. I mention red mage, and you focus on RDM in your sig, so clearly you're familiar with that.

You mean "sub white mage because the game lacks dedicated healers so you can be shackled to healing and spamming buffs", "sub black mage and get laughed out of groups because your nukes are still subpar and are 'less useful' to the group because you're not focusing on healing", and "sub WAR/NIN/DNC and be kicked off the game from the sheer power of the alliance's collective laughter at the idea of you wanting to do something other than heal/buff"? RDM is not the best example for what you're trying to argue.

This game presently offers you no choice in gearing. There is a best in each tier. There's no choice in stats, there's a best for that too. There's no real choice, for paladin at least, in what abilities you equip and it's not because there can't be, it's because they choices they offer are silly.

If you argue abilities, then you're conveniently forgetting that this is done for the sake of balance between jobs, in tandem with traits that enhance said abilities for their native classes.

The abilities don't have to be "useful" 100% of the time, as the core of jour job is defined by native class abilities and the five job abilities you get. Cross-class abilities are for additional utility and flavor, but are not and should not be job-defining. From one paladin to another, my bars currently have Cure, Raise, Foresight, Mercy Stroke, Fracture; outside of Foresight, they all don't get used 100% of the time, but that is fine.

If you argue gearing, you're basing that entirely on wanting to be a unique snowflake with no practical gain to gameplay on a larger level. Keeping stat gains and job/class scaling on a tight leash is for the sake of balanced gameplay, and it'll be a cold day in hell before I support the alternative.

We may look different, but we're all ascending to be precisely the same thing on each job. Worse, there's not even any opportunity to get it wrong. If something is higher tier, you equip it, and the sub-job abilities practically place themselves.

If the choice is between "balanced classes with a very limited selection of cross class abilities that 'place themselves' while being more for flavor", and "balance clusterf*ck where people might think they are special snowflakes but there is in reality one sole good way to do things and a trillion under-performing set ups that get laughed out of groups that do the content that matters", I'm going to pick the former every time.

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Now, if you wanted something a little more cosmetic, I may support that. Going off the minor glyphs from WoW that modified abilities cosmetically without changing gameplay, maybe even adding silly flavor abilities or modifications to spells and special effects. I'd love a Glyph of Mercy Stroke that changes the animation to simulate the weapon type you're using so that instead of a giant axe rising from the ground a giant sword raises from the ground (would sort of ressemble Night Sword from FF Tactics, so you can even tie an FF reference to it!).

[Steeled]

You mean "sub white mage because the game lacks dedicated healers so you can be shackled to healing and spamming buffs", "sub black mage and get laughed out of groups because your nukes are still subpar and are 'less useful' to the group because you're not focusing on healing", and "sub WAR/NIN/DNC and be kicked off the game from the sheer power of the alliance's collective laughter at the idea of you wanting to do something other than heal/buff"? RDM is not the best example for what you're trying to argue.

Prior to SCH, RDM was a great healer. SCH didn't change RDM, but it did kind of knock it down a peg. WHM could heal harder, but RDM had better throughput. The thing about RDM was the original job to straddle both lines. It could assist in damage until the group needed some healing and then could immediately provide that. Gearswap macros made it possible for you to nuke efficiently and heal efficiently.

RDM also tanked, as you know. It was the original soloer, claiming everything from Faust, to Charybdis, to Urteil (=P) most recently.

The game changed, negatively, after 75.

Anyway, no, I don't want just cosmetic toys. I want functional choices to make. I, for one, like the opportunity to do things wrong. I like the opportunity to do things differently and I feel like this game, more than any other, deprives us of that choice. I don't want to be a special snowflake, but I do want an actual choice to make and this game has managed to give us *none*. It's astounding.

It is not because I have any dreams of being a special snowflake, but because choice allows us to compensate. If I know I'm playing with a weak healer, I might want to gear/"spec" for that.

If you argue abilities, then you're conveniently forgetting that this is done for the sake of balance between jobs, in tandem with traits that enhance said abilities for their native classes.

Balance between jobs? Like how Warrior and Paladin are balanced? How Scholar and White Mage are balanced (edit: enmity)? How Dragoon and Monk are balanced? It wasn't done for the balance of anything, and if it was, it was done poorly. White mage is a fine healer, but I'd rather have a scholar. In high-healing situations, its nice when a healer can do its job without riding the tank's threat (Hi Titan). Monk is a fine DPS but Dragoons do it better, and though it lacks the desired limit break, bards do it best.

The abilities don't have to be "useful" 100% of the time, as the core of jour job is defined by native class abilities and the five job abilities you get. Cross-class abilities are for additional utility and flavor, but are not and should not be job-defining. From one paladin to another, my bars currently have Cure, Raise, Foresight, Mercy Stroke, Fracture; outside of Foresight, they all don't get used 100% of the time, but that is fine.

No, I'm talking about abilities that aren't useful. If you can't cast stoneskin, curing yourself has value, but minimal. The bosses usually hit a lot harder than a Paladin can cure for (and rightfully so), so the best you're going to do is delay death for a second. Stoneskin is more likely to save you, especially since when everyone is playing properly, a heal shouldn't be far away.

Tell me what a Paladin or gladiator is to do with Skull Sunder, please. That ability was thrown in there for the appearance of choice. Even if Heavy Swing was in there, it wouldn't belong because paladin has it's own counterpart abilities.

If you argue gearing, you're basing that entirely on wanting to be a unique snowflake with no practical gain to gameplay on a larger level. Keeping stat gains and job/class scaling on a tight leash is for the sake of balanced gameplay, and it'll be a cold day in hell before I support the alternative.

We don't work for the Adventurer's company, we shouldn't all be wearing the same uniform, but that is there is only one path presented to us. Everybody, do this the same way.

[Duelle]

RDM also tanked, as you know.

Through an oversight in enmity gained from spamming enfeebles (which got readily nerfed).

It was the original soloer

Which a responsible developer team would have nerfed to the ground within hours of it being discovered, not used as an excuse to not fix the job in ways it actually needed fixing.

Six years and still waiting for melee fixes that won't come, to the point I'm asking SE for a fitting Red Mage in a game completely separate from FFXI just so that I can bury the hatchet.

If I know I'm playing with a weak healer, I might want to gear/"spec" for that.

The correct answer is "kick the weak healer or play around their weaknesses to minimize them", not "change your class' performance to compensate for them".

It's one thing to help out the healer in a dire situation (I've thrown off heals on stuff like the dragon in AK and HM garuda) without sacrificing your role. It's another to do part of the healer's job for them.

Balance between jobs? Like how Warrior and Paladin are balanced?

WAR and PLD's problem comes from not enough being done to have a standard tank kit, and hopefully that will get addressed soon enough.

How Scholar and White Mage are balanced?

Shiyo already answered this, but SCH and WHM are close to if not perfectly balanced.

How Dragoon and Monk are balanced?

In the hands of people who know their jobs very well yes, MNK in particular can produce exceedingly good DPS. It's one of the few jobs that have a steep learning curve (though even I will agree with Greased Lightning needs more uptime through a duration extension).

[Kallera]

We don't work for the Adventurer's company, we shouldn't all be wearing the same uniform, but that is there is only one path presented to us. Everybody, do this the same way.

You will conform, PLD number 573313D.
Customization is a lie,
there is only the build,
there is only the repetitive tasks. *bzzt*

/sarcasm

I think I remember warning of this in the beta forum.