SUMMONER, WHAT WOULD YOU CHANGE OR ADD? (EVOLUTION & STAT ALLOCATION)

[Jocko]

The problem is that SE didn't create a 'Summoner', they created a WoW-esq Warlock and called it Summoner

In fact that's how I feel about a majority of the game. They didn't make a 'Final Fantasy' title, they made an MMO and called it Final Fantasy

[Ryuko]

The problem is that SE didn't create a 'Summoner', they created a WoW-esq Warlock and called it Summoner

In fact that's how I feel about a majority of the game. They didn't make a 'Final Fantasy' title, they made an MMO and called it Final Fantasy

Actually, they pulled a LOT of Final Fantasy lore from many of the Final Fantasy games of the past. There's a thread around here detailing all of the different things that were 'borrowed' from the FF series as a whole. Personally, I think FFXIV did a much better job at making this game feel like a "Final Fantasy" game than the last MMO (FFXI) did... and I LOVED FFXI. I love FFXIV too, although I would love to see more story than I've already seen.

That said, you are correct that FFXIV Summoner feels very similar to 'warlock' in WoW -- but that's mostly because of the DoT mechanics and similar ability names. (Doesn't Warlock have an ability called Shadow Flare too? Or something similar?) Your Egi actually accounts for more of your damage than you will at first realize, but the only real time you interact with your pet is telling it to move, initializing Enkindle, or giving them the two buff cooldowns. You can also take charge and (for example) tell Garuda when to use the DoT-extension ability (useful to time in certain fights), but your actual interaction with your pet is very limited compared to what people think it should be.

[MakotoNano]

This thread could get a 1000+ pages and I still bet they wouldn't change it. I'm in full support of this, but I just dont see it happening. This is square enix we are talking about.

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

Actually, they pulled a LOT of Final Fantasy lore from many of the Final Fantasy games of the past. There's a thread around here detailing all of the different things that were 'borrowed' from the FF series as a whole. Personally, I think FFXIV did a much better job at making this game feel like a "Final Fantasy" game than the last MMO (FFXI) did... and I LOVED FFXI. I love FFXIV too, although I would love to see more story than I've already seen.

That said, you are correct that FFXIV Summoner feels very similar to 'warlock' in WoW -- but that's mostly because of the DoT mechanics and similar ability names. (Doesn't Warlock have an ability called Shadow Flare too? Or something similar?) Your Egi actually accounts for more of your damage than you will at first realize, but the only real time you interact with your pet is telling it to move, initializing Enkindle, or giving them the two buff cooldowns. You can also take charge and (for example) tell Garuda when to use the DoT-extension ability (useful to time in certain fights), but your actual interaction with your pet is very limited compared to what people think it should be.

Infact THAT'S the main problem. The interaction with your egi is almost zero, while I expected "a summoner". I mean, I've done summoner for their summons, I'm ok with egi graphics (except titan, but I suppose is personal), what I'm not ok is their usage: DEBUFFS are much more relevant than my summons, which is quite sad.

And more sad is the fact that chocobo is a much more interesting summon (talent tree, "stance" tank/healer/dps)... the egi's are completely sad and fail totally at giving you the feeling of "handling a part of the power of a primal".

[Ryuko]

Infact THAT'S the main problem. The interaction with your egi is almost zero, while I expected "a summoner". I mean, I've done summoner for their summons, I'm ok with egi graphics (except titan, but I suppose is personal), what I'm not ok is their usage: DEBUFFS are much more relevant than my summons, which is quite sad.

And more sad is the fact that chocobo is a much more interesting summon (talent tree, "stance" tank/healer/dps)... the egi's are completely sad and fail totally at giving you the feeling of "handling a part of the power of a primal".

I would love some sort of talent tree for the pets, but I am almost positive that it would result in people picking the same exact talents anyway...

I understand that people are upset about summoners not having much interaction with the pets. I get it. But I also can't think of a 'real' way to increase that interaction. I mean, if you compare it to FFXI -- FFXI was very slow. You would tell your pet to attack and then just stand back and watch. Every minute (or slightly less if you had the gear), you would tell your pet to use a special ability. Eventually this was split into attack/buff timers, but that's still only TWO abilities per minute IF you chose to use both. Meanwhile, you're pet is attacking and you are mostly standing still, unless you are hitting the mob for a low amount of melee damage of backup healing as support.

Now let's look at FFXIV... This game operates at a much faster pace than FFXI. Some of the harder fights require you to move a lot, as well as move your pet (unless you want to have to keep resummoning). If your job was to just stand still, avoid things, and press buttons to watch your pet do certain attacks... it would literally amount to the SAME thing as it is now, with the exception being the origin of damage. (You'd still be casting, but the animation of what happens would come from your pet.) I envision the Egis of the future having more utility and interaction (mostly because of the feedback people have given in threads like these). For example, perhaps Ramuh will have a stun that can only be used when YOU initiate it. Of course, there are other problems that come into play... What if Ramuh is in the middle of using an attack. Is there a delay? Will your stun hit in time to interrupt something?

We have to think about what summoner is and CAN be in the grand scope of things. How can we make the class more pet-oriented while not encouraging summoners to just 'stand' there and be immobile without something to constantly do?

[Duelle]

Just have to chime in here to 1000% agree with Duelle. Garuda's design in FFXI is way superior to the one presented in FFXIV. :/

Hey now, I never said it was superior. >.>

I'm sorry I can't let this slide. Looks is subjective, but what the hell are you two smoking? "FFXI Garuda has a more bestial look" "Is more superior"?

I never said it was superior. Just that it would be difficult to transpose that in an abstract style.

the other is just completely butt naked, and showing off her breast.

Really? I always thought her body was covered in bristles (like the little feathers that cover a bird's head) with her forearms and feet having more pronounced feathers. As opposed to XIV's Garuda, who has green naked flesh under cleverly-placed armor and plumage.

PS: I can't believe we're actually having this conversation.

[Gyrus]

i want them to fix TRI CRAP

[SirDiscoFrog]

I don't think you can do much with Garuda seeing how over-sex-appealed her design is without simplifying her look.

Just have to chime in here to 1000% agree with Duelle. Gardua's design in FFXI is way superior to the one presented in FFXIV. :/

It doesn't have to be a direct translation. It could simply reflect the harpy like qualities she has. The wings could easily be more feather-ed like(or more like harpy wings in general instead of just normal wings with no arms), Garuda has her headdress thing going on, so why not add something similar instead of just a tiny pointy head/beak. Shoot Garuda egi could be a simpler version of a Harpy with some tweaks.

Are we seeing the same thing here? Okay, one has a thong thing, and the other is just completely butt naked, and showing off her breast.

Looking at the FXI Garuda I would have to agree. Both look pretty nude to me. I feel like the amp'ed up breast and how she acts in FXIV is what primarily sexualizes her though.

[Malamasala]

We are NOT summoning avatars of the primals. We are drawing from the same energy that the primals come from -- aethereal energy (we are arcanists at our base, remember). Our relic weapon has a crystal designed to better channel that energy. This is why the Egis appear as they do and do not have a personality... BECAUSE we are just one summoner. I don't understand how people don't get this. It's in the storyline.

Then explain Carbuncle not being a glowing ball? I mean if everything had to be simplified, why did we get a full blown carbuncle prime as pet on level 4? Clearly we have room for detailed and wonderful pets, as long as they remain small. And I for one wouldn't mind the entire cast of primes to be next to me in fairy size as long as they looked like their originals. Others would of course disagree since they can't stand things not looking big and mean.

[Ryuko]

Then explain Carbuncle not being a glowing ball? I mean if everything had to be simplified, why did we get a full blown carbuncle prime as pet on level 4? Clearly we have room for detailed and wonderful pets, as long as they remain small. And I for one wouldn't mind the entire cast of primes to be next to me in fairy size as long as they looked like their originals. Others would of course disagree since they can't stand things not looking big and mean.

To be fair, they didn't really explain Carbuncle very well at all. I was super surprised by that. I might go back through the cutscenes and refresh my memory to see if there is a better explanation than I can remember. I also remember absolutely NO lore reason behind why we 'lose' Carbuncle as we gain the elemental Egis. Then again, there is no large primal Carbuncle mentioned in the storyline like Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Leviathan, Ramuh, etc... So he may be something different than the same 'glowing ball' I envision would be an Egi... but he's not an Egi because it doesn't say Carbuncle-Egi. It says Emerald or Topaz Carbuncle.