DPS Parser - ToS Violation?

[Ervin]

You've got to start thinking of mmo's as modern day hobbies. They take substantially more time than other game types. Either play a lot, or fall behind.

Playing to not fall behind is one thing, and it's not even remotely hard to keep up in this game really. 300 tomes per week, obtained through a very easy manner. The game is timegated, sure you can raid for green drops aswell, but the only competition is from NPCs. I dont worry about falling behind or maximizing my preformance until I set foot in PvP, where a parser wont do jack for you since PvP is dynamic. If you can beat PvE content somewhat smoothly it's good enough for me, shaving off 5 minutes on a raid is hardly something I'd bother with. Because more than likely, the time I would spend to tweak my spec would most likely consume more time than all those extra 5 minutes added together per run.

Limitations are also a big hindrance for min-maxing in this game, there are very few options, both with gear, skills and attributes. You get BiS fairly easy, you learn a good rotation, you learn the boss fights, you stay out of bad stuff on the floor and you profit. It's a trinity game, it doesnt get harder than that.

I can see the parser being useful and legit for personal use, but when you start bringing it to pugs where people are trying to just have fun it should be bannable. If you use a parser, stick to other parser using people, easy as that really. But dont think everyone shares the enthusiasm to have the game as a second job. Also, with the difference in class mechanics/dps design, a parser wont give you a fair answer. Some classes are screwed on moving fights while they shine on static fights, just like other classes have more mobility but deal less damage to compensate.

[Natolii]

Over analyzing numbers is not going to get you the best groups. My friends and I know how to work together as a team and that's what is needed more. There are too many people willing to tag along with a group and let everyone else do the work so they can get the loot.

A Parser is not going to tell you that. Nor will it help communications. You can crunch numbers until the end of time, but that is not going to help you get through. A Solid team you can trust, that's what is needed most of all. Someone willing to work together to help you get the gear, run the dungeons... That's the winning formula.

Yeah, crunching numbers to maximize your damage? No, I don't have time to take on a 3rd job.

[Mang]

Gut feeling doesn't equal empirical data.

Parsers are a useful tool for self improvement and performance analysis.

If someone's an elitist douchenozzle it's not the parser's fault. Absent access to a parser, they'd still find a way to be arrogant.

[LadyVaJedi]

I agree with Ervin. The game is suppose to be playing for fun. And it is still a form of cheating using the parasa.

[choke]

This is just like the speeruns, people always want to ban whatever methods they don't happen to like. In this case, it usually happens because *"too low DPS" kick* is totally a parser's fault.

It is true that DPS parsers are used by people who use it to harass DDs for doing too low DPS, but they are also used by people who just want to see how much damage people are doing for improvement purposes.

From what I have seen, it is usually BLMs who end up being harassed for too low DPS. These people are either trolls or they forget the fact that BLMs can't move when casting, this is compensated by a higher damage output, but when you add bad enough luck and get constantly targeted with AoEs, you are almost inevitably doing much less DPS than normally. >_>

Exactly, these people are going to exist with out without the existence of parsers. I'm sure we've all already played with dickheads yelling at other players over really nothing.

Gut feeling doesn't equal empirical data.

Parsers are a useful tool for self improvement and performance analysis.

If someone's an elitist douchenozzle it's not the parser's fault. Absent access to a parser, they'd still find a way to be arrogant.

Precisely this.

Playing to not fall behind is one thing, and it's not even remotely hard to keep up in this game really. 300 tomes per week, obtained through a very easy manner. The game is timegated, sure you can raid for green drops aswell, but the only competition is from NPCs. I dont worry about falling behind or maximizing my preformance until I set foot in PvP, where a parser wont do jack for you since PvP is dynamic. If you can beat PvE content somewhat smoothly it's good enough for me, shaving off 5 minutes on a raid is hardly something I'd bother with. Because more than likely, the time I would spend to tweak my spec would most likely consume more time than all those extra 5 minutes added together per run.

Limitations are also a big hindrance for min-maxing in this game, there are very few options, both with gear, skills and attributes. You get BiS fairly easy, you learn a good rotation, you learn the boss fights, you stay out of bad stuff on the floor and you profit. It's a trinity game, it doesnt get harder than that.

I can see the parser being useful and legit for personal use, but when you start bringing it to pugs where people are trying to just have fun it should be bannable. If you use a parser, stick to other parser using people, easy as that really. But dont think everyone shares the enthusiasm to have the game as a second job. Also, with the difference in class mechanics/dps design, a parser wont give you a fair answer. Some classes are screwed on moving fights while they shine on static fights, just like other classes have more mobility but deal less damage to compensate.

1. So if I'm understanding this correctly, you don't overly like parsers because there is no benefit for You

2a. Why should it be bannable for use with pugs? Its been said over and over and over that these people exist with or without parsers, if they're not able to yell about dps, they'll yell about something else. It's a social issue and has nothing to do with parsers existence.

2b. We all know that differences in classes means differences in dps. That said, its a good measuring tool against other players of the same job/class/whatever. Besides, as I (and others) keep saying, these parsers are not only for dps, when used properly, they can help determine who is taking more or less damage from certain abilities and then watching what they do for certain phases in the fight. This is a parsers best feature.

I agree with Ervin. The game is suppose to be playing for fun. And it is still a form of cheating using the parasa.

And exactly who gets to decide what's "fun". Fun for me in any mmo is min-maxing my dps. Finding the best practises to avoid certain mechanics in boss fights to do the highest dps possible, that's how I (and many others) enjoy playing mmo's. You don't get to decide what's "fun" for me.

And again, no, it's not a form of cheating. It would be cheating if these tools broke the game to play for you or something like that. They don't.

[Facespasm]

Ah, the joy of reading ignorant peoples replies in ignorant threads.

Yes, a parser IS a datamining tool in the sense that it gathers information through a text based file and so on. It retrieves information i.e mining.

The parser IS a 3rd party software that DOES go against the EULA/TOS.

The USE of such a software is at YOUR own risk.

That been said, people can be asshats even without addons.

[Mang]

Ah, the joy of reading ignorant peoples replies in ignorant threads.

Yes, a parser IS a datamining tool in the sense that it gathers information through a text based file and so on. It retrieves information i.e mining.

The parser IS a 3rd party software that DOES go against the EULA/TOS.

The USE of such a software is at YOUR own risk.

That been said, people can be asshats even without addons.

If it's parsing a log, it's not against ToS because the log is auto generating outside the executable program.

[LamiaTrucido]

What are you guys gonna do when SE releases the community tools that let us build plugins?

Oh no, a parser, whatever shall we do?!?!?

[choke]

What are you guys gonna do when SE releases the community tools that let us build plugins?

Oh no, a parser, whatever shall we do?!?!?

At that time we'll switch to dps plugins. Keep in mind this is SE were talking about here. *If* we ever see the community tools it's going to be 2 years down the road. Yes I read the developer interview too where he said 6 months after release,but I doubt addons are high on their priority list at all.

[DanteMog]

I don't know about others but unless i can dig through the code these seem like a really nice way to get your account hacked. Even if they say they are safe i wouldn't use these things, seems too easy to compromise your account..