Endgame too challenging and teamwork based (Hear me out)!

[Raikki]

In all seriousness, this is the issue, and forgive me for being overtly elitist about it but it's the simple truth:

High end bleeding edge 8-man raiding has to have higher execution demands than much of the playerbase can handle. Bosses have to be too hard to carry mediocre players on. To tune any lower is to alienate and bore the good players who play primarily for that challenge. This does temporarily exclude a large number of players, but that's being addressed by nerfing the content once it's no longer "bleeding edge". The real problem right now is that there wasn't enough content at launch because of important features being pushed back to 2.1, so the average players are bored with the content that's there for them right now and want to do Coil, but Coil isn't meant for them until later.

Unfortunately, the only way to lower execution demands without making the content a joke is to increase the group size significantly (which is what they're doing with Crystal Tower). In early WoW, for example, raids were 40-man but the execution demands on individual players tended to be lower to accommodate the difficulty and improbability of having top tier players in all 40 slots. Tons of people got "carried" in WoW without it ruining the content because it stayed exclusive and relevant due to the coordination challenge. Those are the two extremes, largescale content that's hard to coordinate but easy for good players to execute, or smallscale content that's easy to coordinate but hard for good players to execute. The combinations of large scale+hard execution and small scale+easy execution are not viable models for an MMO.

[Steeled]

Coil turn 1/2? I'm sorry what did you expect WoW-esque LFR where 6 out of 25 people could be afk, another 6 dead, another 6 incompetent and still clear everything flawlessly in an hour?

We found the best strategy was just to have all 18 die so that healers didn't waste mana on them.

Kidding. I quit before LFR, but I heard it was bad.

[Sephirah]

Im a gamer who loves a challenge. I dont scoff at hard difficulty in games, but in an MMO such as FFXIV difficult dungeons/bosses present a unique problem.

Eight people doing something correctly together, coordinating together is very time consuming, and just feels frustrating. If one key role dies such as a healer or tank, the fight goes sour. If someone misses a AOE dodge or does not know the fight it becomes a problem. This is the primary concern of the Duty finder in endgame.

Ive done the whole teamwork thing. Im in a FC, ran COIL turn 1 and 2 using mumble/teamspeak, use linkshells for good groups, etc but it just comes off as frustrating. Spending up to an hour trying to get people on to do the content, andthen the content you attempt is just riddled with tons of mechanics to all be familiar with. All 8 players mind you to perform perfectly.

I know the staff at Fry's can barely tie their shoes, but they should have told you the single player games were one isle over.


I direct your attention to the FF that feels the most like an online game without actually being one:

[Alhanelem]

Eight people doing something correctly together, coordinating together is very time consuming, and just feels frustrating. If one key role dies such as a healer or tank, the fight goes sour. If someone misses a AOE dodge or does not know the fight it becomes a problem. This is the primary concern of the Duty finder in endgame.

Well, we'll just say if you cant handle coordnation with 8 people, you wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in WoWs 20 and 40 man raids, or how about 64 man Dynamis runs when it came out in FFXI?

battles like those in coil that require strong coordnation are fun. I don't mind wiping 20 times as long as it isn't because people are being dumb. It's challenging, and challenge is a good thing. There's no such thing as too challenging unless it's impossible.

[Kyp]

This has to be a troll post

[Seig345]

The content was designed to kick your butt and require 8 good players to complete. Working as intended. The whole rest of the game leading up to endgame is easily attainable at any time without having all decent players, leave the part of the game with an actual challenge for those who enjoy it, it's all they get.

When a game gets tough, it shouldn't be made easier. You're a human, you're a part of a species with intelligence enough to adapt to a situation and then overcome it. When a shepherd had to deal with wolves attacking his flock, he had to observe the problem, come up with a solution, and overcome it. He couldn't just ask the wolves to be easier to catch. That's a real life, life and death kind of situation. That kind of intellect should have no problem with a simple video game.

[amnie]

I'm currently only in an 'end game' guild in TOR, so I can't say anything from first hand experience in ARR (yet), but you know how we clear content?

we SCHEDULE it. we have sign-ups for people and if we have more people signed up than we can actually take we 'roll' who gets to go (we also sometimes ask people to sign-up for a specific role in advance, which will probably be needed in ARR too since many people (will)have more than one job at 50)

granted that means we don't 'clear' everything every night, but that's not something you should expect in ARR, either (though I guess possible. I don't know how exactly the logout timers work)

[Juz10y0]

I just got out of a thread that said end game was too easy... >< wth

[Illya]

"We choose to do these things not because they are hard and require teamwork, but because they are a slight challenge."
--John F. Kennedy

"Ask not what your party can do for you. Ask what you can do for your party."

[Sephirah]

"Ask not what your party can do for you. Ask what you can do for your party."