Melee roles are being gimped in this game

[Lithera]

Demon Wall better on melee? LOL Sure we're able to DPS a little more consistently but we lose our positional abilities. Because we can't be anywhere but in FRONT of the mob we lose our Heavy Thrust boost AND our entire ID->Dis->Chaos Thrust combo. So that's 10% flat knocked off our DPS just from no Heavy Thrust and another 10% by not having Disembowel debuff. Not to mention no Chaos Thrust DoT and the loss of the overall DPS from the combo bonuses. Also it isn't unusual for DPS to have DoT moves. We hit with lances and blades...the monster will bleed. In fact Phlebotomize actually MEANS to draw blood. I assume Chaos Thrust involves dragon venom...

[HongKongPhoo]

I don't know. I'm currently on Turn 4 in Coil and i wouldn't say that i feel gimped because i'm bad, or don't know how to avoid zones, but simply because you have to work harder while having less damage output as a melee.

While there are bad ones who don't know their class very well or have a hard time dodging mechanics, the better ones shouldn't be put into a disadvantage to ranged classes.

As a level 50 blm, most mobs in the endgame can 2 piece me where most melee can take a hit. Sure I can out dps most melee but I can also be killed a lot quicker and that's the trade off. More power yet a lot quicker to die.

[Zoeila]

the problem with the high risk/reward people are talking about is that the reward isnt proportional to the risk

[Zymran]

Demon Wall better on melee? LOL Sure we're able to DPS a little more consistently but we lose our positional abilities. Because we can't be anywhere but in FRONT of the mob we lose our Heavy Thrust boost AND our entire ID->Dis->Chaos Thrust combo. So that's 10% flat knocked off our DPS just from no Heavy Thrust and another 10% by not having Disembowel debuff.

You're right about ID-DIS-CT but wrong on HT.
Just get as close to the wall as you can and you'll be able to aply Heavy Thrust no probs

[AlphaDragoon]

the problem with the high risk/reward people are talking about is that the reward isnt proportional to the risk

Basically. If ranged classes get to be safer, melees should get to put down more damage. While in optimal conditions this is the case, most fights aren't "optimal conditions" for melees, meaning downtime. More to the point, Bards get to be safer AND put down their power at all times, and more often than not the melee increased damage when they do have uptime isn't enough to match safety + 100% uptime. Bards are low risk/high reward while melees are high risk/decent reward.

You're right about ID-DIS-CT but wrong on HT.
Just get as close to the wall as you can and you'll be able to aply Heavy Thrust no probs

If I'm recalling my LNC/DRG correctly Heavy Thrust is activated from flanks (side), as Zymran here is saying you can get flank bonuses very easily on Demon Wall by simply going to the side of the monster part sticking out of the wall. That's what it's counting for positioning, not the wall itself.

[himehime]

Demon Wall better on melee? LOL Sure we're able to DPS a little more consistently but we lose our positional abilities. Because we can't be anywhere but in FRONT of the mob we lose our Heavy Thrust boost AND our entire ID->Dis->Chaos Thrust combo. So that's 10% flat knocked off our DPS just from no Heavy Thrust and another 10% by not having Disembowel debuff. Not to mention no Chaos Thrust DoT and the loss of the overall DPS from the combo bonuses. Also it isn't unusual for DPS to have DoT moves. We hit with lances and blades...the monster will bleed. In fact Phlebotomize actually MEANS to draw blood. I assume Chaos Thrust involves dragon venom...

ID the dullahan before demonwall as it's about to die, disembowel>ct on demonwall. it'll be close to 50% uptime, since killing it around the time it casts 2nd repel takes about a minute.

[xyaie]

Demon Wall better on melee? LOL Sure we're able to DPS a little more consistently but we lose our positional abilities. Because we can't be anywhere but in FRONT of the mob we lose our Heavy Thrust boost AND our entire ID->Dis->Chaos Thrust combo. So that's 10% flat knocked off our DPS just from no Heavy Thrust and another 10% by not having Disembowel debuff. Not to mention no Chaos Thrust DoT and the loss of the overall DPS from the combo bonuses. Also it isn't unusual for DPS to have DoT moves. We hit with lances and blades...the monster will bleed. In fact Phlebotomize actually MEANS to draw blood. I assume Chaos Thrust involves dragon venom...

His box is a circle like every boss. You can hit him in the side (HT). Monks have to spend half the fight in front though and are hurt more accordingly

[ChaozK]

His box is a circle like every boss. You can hit him in the side (HT). Monks have to spend half the fight in front though and are hurt more accordingly

Not really. Dragon Kick>Twin Snake>Snap punch is a pretty good flank only combo. You can still get all your buffs and DOTs too. DRG actually loses a bit more dps on the wall due to lack of disembowel and chaos thrust.

[xyaie]

Not really. Dragon Kick>Twin Snake>Snap punch is a pretty good flank only combo. You can still get all your buffs and DOTs too. DRG actually loses a bit more dps on the wall due to lack of disembowel and chaos thrust.

Both when he is doing the outside lines as well as during the repulse you are doing 100 potency attacks, bootshine still hits harder than dragon kick, and true strike harder than twin snake (even if not a huge difference). I'd say the potential damage of those still outweighs disembowel and chaos thrust. Moreso due to the time spent in front (where a dragoon loses 0 dps from time spent on the side on this fight)

[ChoaticEvil]

They should just raise the threat generation for all dps across the board. Those who melee wouldn't have to worry much about the change unless a fight was less demanding positionally. But ranged would be forced to make their presence less significant to ensure their own survival in pretty much every fight.