The account suspensions and gil reset leave a black mark on this game.

[JoRob]

I'm puzzled.
One thing that keeps bumping up against statements about the game's free market economy is this: a free market pricing system works only if there are no sudden bursts of coin from outside. The ability of a player to buy coin that can be summarily dumped into the market undercuts the market's ability to control a price, inflating it.
The FFXIV markets will never be the open market that people seem to think they are as long as outside sources of coin exist.
Look back on the thread There are lots of statements from Firsts on setting their original prices, when they were the only source.
My question to the Firsts is--and remember, these are early days on the server--how much gil did YOU have when you first posted your mats? I'm assuming you were as broke as everyone else on the server. This is BEFORE you made your millions, remember. And if you didn't have much, in a land where most folks were broke, where did you expect it to come from? Who had the gil to pay you?

[Nero92]

I'm puzzled.
a free market pricing system works only if there are no sudden bursts of coin from outside. The ability of a player to buy coin that can be summarily dumped into the market undercuts the market's ability to control a price, inflating it.
The FFXIV markets will never be the open market that people seem to think they are as long as outside sources of coin exist.
lots of statements from Firsts on setting their original prices, when they were the only source.
My question to the Firsts is--and remember, these are early days on the server--how much gil did YOU have when you first posted your mats? I'm assuming you were as broke as everyone else on the server.BEFORE you made your millions. if you didn't have much, in a land where most folks were broke, where did you expect it to come from? Who had the gil to pay you?

Look everyone, common sense.

[Vanidin]

I'm puzzled.
One thing that keeps bumping up against statements about the game's free market economy is this: a free market pricing system works only if there are no sudden bursts of coin from outside. *snip*
My question to the Firsts is--and remember, these are early days on the server--how much gil did YOU have when you first posted your mats? I'm assuming you were as broke as everyone else on the server. This is BEFORE you made your millions, remember. And if you didn't have much, in a land where most folks were broke, where did you expect it to come from? Who had the gil to pay you?

I made just shy of 300k leveling to 50 and doing the storyline quests on my whm.

Honestly if I wanted my relic and needed ores, I wouldn't have even blinked at paying 39k... it's really not very much. Outside of repairs the only use I have for gil is to buy things I want on the market wards. If I didn't want to pay it I would have simply waited till the price dropped as supply increased. They capitalized on people's impatience and/or unwillingness to gather the items themselves... you do the same thing every time you put something up on the market wards to sell. The buyer would rather buy than gather themselves or put in the effort to be capable of gathering themselves. I get that a lot of you are jealous and angry that motivated crafters/gatherers made a ton of gil while you were grinding out your relics. But it's my turn to be puzzled... you had the same opportunity to level a gathering/crafting job and be one of the limited number supplying high demand items. So because you chose not too... you can criticize those who did?

What do you expect to happen in a free market when high demand items have very limited supply?

1: No, just wondering how 1st gen determined prices and are now arguing they weren't overpriced when the game only accumulates ~500k and 1st gen lvl 50 DOM/DOW didn't have time to craft.

The first crafters/gatherers determined prices by being first....duh. They try a price, if people are willing to pay then the price is determined.

First gen DOM/DOW didn't have time to craft because they decided not to have time to craft. If you aren't willing to put in the time to get to a point where you can create an item you want then you have only yourself to blame when the limited number of people that can make it set an aggressive price.
Why would someone sell something for less than they know it will sell for?

[Nero92]

The first crafters/gatherers determined prices by being first....duh. They try a price, if people are willing to pay then the price is determined.

First gen DOM/DOW didn't have time to craft because they decided not to have time to craft. If you aren't willing to put in the time to get to a point where you can create an item you want then you have only yourself to blame when the limited number of people that can make it set an aggressive price.
Why would someone sell something for less than they know it will sell for?[/I]

By your own admission ~300k gil. When people claim they made sales of 1mil gil IN THE BEGINNING, where did the extra come from? I wasn't referring to 30k sales, etc. Unlike the real world, people who can't afford things they want pay real money for gil because they're too lazy to get it honest. Being 1st is important enough to cheat. So they would pay any price for the armor.

[Amberion]

By your own admission ~300k gil. When people claim they made sales of 1mil gil IN THE BEGINNING, [b]where did the extra come from?]/b] I wasn't referring to 30k sales, etc. Unlike the real world, people who can't afford things they want pay real money for gil because they're too lazy to get it honest. Being 1st is important enough to cheat. So they would pay any price for the armor.

From farming.

Remember all those post a few weeks ago about them being broke. That Gil went mostly to other players. Then you also sold Philosophy items to crafters. You can quite easily make enough gil doing all that.

You should not expect dinging 50 and then just be able to buy the currently best crafted items from currency you just got while leveling up.

[Nero92]

From farming.

Remember all those post a few weeks ago about them being broke. That Gil went mostly to other players. Then you also sold Philosophy items to crafters. You can quite easily make enough gil doing all that.

You should not expect dinging 50 and then just be able to buy the currently best crafted items from currency you just got while leveling up.

I appreciate the legitimate reply given maturely. That's a good point as well. We'll never know, but I'm still wary of the idea of people who want everything 1st taking the time out to farm for fear of coming 2nd; although that is a viable explanation of how income can be accrued. This is my 1st MMO and the idea of rushing sounds foreign to begin with so maybe I don't get the mindset of people who just want to make it to the end, but to each their own. That's why my main char's FC is Slow-Motion.

[Nero92]

[QUOTE=scarebearz;1416333]snippet[QUOTE]

This was not directed towards you, however, there are others who did such transactions and they were suspended. While it may have seemed pointed, I didn't want to be the 1 millionth person saying "I know a person.." at the start of their post. Looking back, I should have.
You are the minority and unfortunately, still got screwed over. I've seen you in other posts and doubt anyone would spend that much time trying to be investigated if they actually cheated. Hence, why I haven't responded to any of your posts

[Susanoh]

I'm puzzled.
One thing that keeps bumping up against statements about the game's free market economy is this: a free market pricing system works only if there are no sudden bursts of coin from outside. The ability of a player to buy coin that can be summarily dumped into the market undercuts the market's ability to control a price, inflating it.
The FFXIV markets will never be the open market that people seem to think they are as long as outside sources of coin exist.
Look back on the thread There are lots of statements from Firsts on setting their original prices, when they were the only source.
My question to the Firsts is--and remember, these are early days on the server--how much gil did YOU have when you first posted your mats? I'm assuming you were as broke as everyone else on the server. This is BEFORE you made your millions, remember. And if you didn't have much, in a land where most folks were broke, where did you expect it to come from? Who had the gil to pay you?

The markets are free and open by design. If the markets cannot work due to the possibility of illegitimate sources of gil, as you're suggesting, what would you propose as an alternative? The markets are going to be player controlled no matter what happens, unless SE steps in and starts regulating the prices that players are allowed to sell their items for, and maybe the number of items one is allowed to sell on the markets in a given time period as well (after all, we wouldn't want people getting rich by mass producing lower priced items, as many already have).

Until this happens, what are we left with if we are to stop treating the market as is designed? A market that is free and player controlled on the surface, but which punishes players if they are to succeed? What is the proposed solution by many for the players who enjoy participating in the markets? It usually boils down to, just don't do well. Don't be successful. Sell less items. Sell items at lower prices. For no reason other than the possibility of RMT being utilized and more suspensions being introduced. If the markets are meant to be treated in a completely unnatural way due to the possibility of outside factors existing, and those crafting are meant to throw sound economic decisions out the window in favor of extremely poor decisions out of fear, then these issues have completely turned the markets upside down, and devalued its importance far more than a little inflation ever could.