The account suspensions and gil reset leave a black mark on this game.

[Susanoh]

Your taking everything out of context here Susanoh.

What does the application of the free market economy in real life have to do with how it is applied in an MMORPG? This is camparison has no merit.

You are bound by the ToS and the EULA when you signed on to play the game. You own absolutely nothing, not the characters, not the items and certainly not the gil that you earned in game. If you find that you disagree with SE and can no longer tolerate there constant mishandling of the game and content, you are at liberty to walk away.

What does SE owe you? what do you owe SE? The answer is nothing. It is logical to think that they will probably never get a handle of how RMT operate in the game, but you know this...and your still here...

A free market is a free market anywhere, and the same basic trends will appear no matter where it comes from. The markets in this game behave the exact same way that they would in any scenario, as was likely intended when SE decided to create an unregulated market for players to sell goods in exchange for currency. No comparison to real life needs to be made.

As for the ToS argument, I'm surprised that one took this long to pop up. I'm sure everyone is aware that the ToS in this game as well as any other game says that the developers hold all the power and can treat you like garbage on a whim if they choose. Still, people who invest their money in this game have every right to voice their concerns regardless of what the ToS says. You could very well use the "ToS" argument against any and all complaints about any game with a ToS ever, but quite honestly I'd prefer to voice my opinion when I feel it's necessary and would expect no less from others who have legitimate concerns.

[Teykos]

A player can't possibly be holding more than 100% of illegitimate gil, or legitimate gil, or any kind of gil at one time. The amount of illegitimate gil a player holds would have to be somewhere between 0% and 100%, and I think it's extremely unlikely that so many players would be holding 99% of their wealth obtained illegitimately.
[...]

Flawed logic.

How much a player is currently holding does not negate how much RMT gil they've ever received.

For example:
You have one million gil. You make something that costs you 500k of your legitimate gil. You sell it for 1 million and the buyer paid with RMT gil. You then burn 500k gil on making the item again, and sell that item for another 1 million gil. Another buyer buys it with RMT gil.

Congratulations, you've now received 2 million gil, all of it RMT. And if you spend any more to repeat the cycle of "profit" there, you will have received more RMT gil than what you currently have.

[Mishakai]

Odd.. I read an article on another site about this, and most people support what SE has done. In fact, the only loud voice against it, is one of the people posting here as well.

That again brings up the issue of magnitude. The magnitude of "legitimate" players who lost gil is no where near the number people constantly writing fear-mongering posts would have you believe.

It's pretty damn easy to sit at a keyboard, proclaim innocence and knowledge of some large unknown number of people effected. Heck, if I were in the RMT business, I would do whatever I could to make SE look like the bad guy so I could keep making real world $$$ off of an in-game virtual currency.

[Pinworms]

Would you rather be banned for a month or more for them to look at each and every log or a week and get your account back? Only a small % was hit by this and SE did what they needed to do to combat RTM. The money was dirty one way or another, and SE told you ALL what they did and why. As far as I'm concerned this is a case closed.

I wish I could hit like on the poster right above me more than once. I'd hit it for every person that's come here and QQ at out this.

[Susanoh]

Flawed logic.

How much a player is currently holding does not negate how much RMT gil they've ever received.

For example:
You have one million gil. You make something that costs you 500k of your legitimate gil. You sell it for 1 million and the buyer paid with RMT gil. You then burn 500k gil on making the item again, and sell that item for another 1 million gil. Another buyer buys it with RMT gil.

Congratulations, you've now received 2 million gil, all of it RMT. And if you spend any more to repeat the cycle of "profit" there, you will have received more RMT gil than what you currently have.

I specifically said that they can't be holding more than 100% illegitimate gil at one time for a reason. Many are saying that the gil needed to be removed, even if it's from legitimate players, because it originated from an illegitimate source. You can't then also fault the same legitimate players for ever having come in contact with gil from an illegitimate source and then spending it. If that were the case, anyone who spent gil should have their progress reset as well, not only those who were holding it.

Odd.. I read an article on another site about this, and most people support what SE has done. In fact, the only loud voice against it, is one of the people posting here as well.

That again brings up the issue of magnitude. The magnitude of "legitimate" players who lost gil is no where near the number people constantly writing fear-mongering posts would have you believe.

It's pretty damn easy to sit at a keyboard, proclaim innocence and knowledge of some large unknown number of people effected. Heck, if I were in the RMT business, I would do whatever I could to make SE look like the bad guy so I could keep making real world $$$ off of an in-game virtual currency.

If everyone who was hit by the sweeping suspensions are cheaters, I would love to see some confirmation of that. With seemingly questionable methods of investigation throughout the entire process, a silent stance on the issue, and no form of support to contact that can even allow one to inquire about the situation for those affected, it's difficult to place such high faith in SE that they are in the right as of now.

[scarebearz]

You mean the fella who spent 300k on mats and sold the +2 star item on the marker for 1.25 million? Yeah, 400% markup is peanuts. The real question is does it cost them that much for the same materials now that markets have stabilized? I'm betting their costs have gone down significantly.

It was me, but it was not 300k, it was 400k in tomb mats if i remember and the other mats I provided, so you can call it 450k back then.

I had put this on the market for 999k, but a friend who is lvl 50 said that is too cheap (I was only a lvl 39 BLM, due to crafting), so it went up for 1.25mil, as I could always come down if it does not sell and as a BLM I'd have used it at lvl 50 if I could not sell it.

This was back when it was a lot harder for people to HQ a 2-star, so they demanded a bigger premium. If you fail to HQ the craft you lose gil on the item.

Prices are set via supply and demand, it was the only HQ 2-star robe on the market.

Heck, if I were in the RMT business, I would do whatever I could to make SE look like the bad guy so I could keep making real world $$$ off of an in-game virtual currency.

That is a load of rubbish, RMT lose money not gain if SE lose customers.

RMT is such a big issue here Because There Are Lots Of Players.

A player with 8mil from crafting would be banned only to return to 100k.
A player with 7mil from crafting would be left to play and after the week have well over 7mil.

Both will have had gil somehow touched by RMT gil, yet because one was not hit by the blanket ban is not doing 100x better than the player who did.

If this issue is not sorted now, it will likely happen again.

[Teykos]

I specifically said that they can't be holding more than 100% illegitimate gil at one time for a reason. Many are saying that the gil needed to be removed, even if it's from legitimate players, because it originated from an illegitimate source. You can't then also fault the same legitimate players for ever having come in contact with gil from an illegitimate source and then spending it. If that were the case, anyone who spent gil should have their progress reset as well, not only those who were holding it.

The person you were responding to may have had a bad explanation, but the idea that they simply did the 1/100 gil rounding if amount of RMT ever received > amount of current gil does have merit. It makes the situation of the guy who lost 25 million on his retainer but got to keep ~10 million make more sense as well.

[Kookie]

I've reported and blacklisted ~80 gilsellers and bot users.
So far, only 2 of them were deleted.
I could understand if they took some time getting rid of the gilseller-spammers, but the bots should be handeled in a matter of hours or 1-2 day.

You do realize that the deleted ones are deleted by the users when a person gets banned the lose access to the game but character isnt deleted it just sits there collecting dust

[Pinworms]

It was me, but it was not 300k, it was 400k in tomb mats if i remember and the other mats I provided, so you can call it 450k back then.

I had put this on the market for 999k, but a friend who is lvl 50 said that is too cheap (I was only a lvl 39 BLM, due to crafting), so it went up for 1.25mil, as I could always come down if it does not sell and as a BLM I'd have used it at lvl 50 if I could not sell it.

You sir are part of the RMT problem and deserve everything got got...all 100k of it seriously. The game has been out a month. There is a HUGE out cry that the community and game is Gil starved, and you sir mark up a price like this to sell specifcly to RMT Gil buyers.
Seriously the oly people that could afford it are the Gil buyers. Go cry your river else where. You Gil should have been removed as it was and no you did not make your money legit (as you claim) because the people that bought your items at those prices were not legit. It's common sense.

Problem solved.

[Susanoh]

You sir are part of the RMT problem and deserve everything got got...all 100k of it seriously. The game has been out a month. There is a HUGE out cry that the community and game is Gil starved, and you sir mark up a price like this to sell specifcly to RMT Gil buyers.
Seriously the oly people that could afford it are the Gil buyers. Go cry your river else where. You Gil should have been removed as it was and no you did not make your money legit (as you claim) because the people that bought your items at those prices were not legit. It's common sense.

Problem solved.

It's staggering how many people who have no clue how an in game economy works come and try to tell crafters how they should be conducting their business. No one has yet to provide any viable alternative economic strategy so far to the typical selling according to demand that everyone has done in this game, every game before it, and will do in every game after it that involves a free market.