The account suspensions and gil reset leave a black mark on this game.

[Aegis]

And in this analogy, the "bank" would be SE as central authority and operator of the trading establishment where buyer and seller never meet, and all transfers are done electronically before the seller knows the identity of the buyer.

and they have done their duty by removing the funds from the account holders.

[Susanoh]

If you steal 10,000 dollars and go to Vegas and then win 1 million dollars with the 10,000 you stole. It is all illegal money, and the government will take all the winnings. It is all fruit of the poisonous tree...

Your analogy doesn't fit the situation. It may fit those who bought from RMT, but it doesn't fit those who craft/gather materials and sell hundreds of items along with gaining rewards from quests and leves. If 99% of their gil is illegitimate, then literally all gil on the markets is illegitimate and anyone who uses the markets is guilty as well.

[Azoryl]

Your analogy doesn't fit the situation. It may fit those who bought from RMT, but it doesn't fit those who craft/gather materials and sell hundreds of items along with gaining rewards from quests and leves. If 99% of their gil is illegitimate, then literally all gil on the markets is illegitimate and anyone who uses the markets is guilty as well.

Exactly... which is why they left them with some money. If an honest person sold crystals, for example, to RMT for millions and then turned around and bought other items. All the money is bad. SE picked a number , and set the line to get the corrupt money out of the system. If you sold goods to criminals in RL so they in turn could "launder" the money... you are just as guilty as the criminals.

[Nagiisa]

In a free market, a "reasonable price" is whatever price people are willing to pay. If a crafter prices an item too high, then no one will buy it, and the crafter is forced to lower the price. If people buy it up immediately and there seems to be a lot of demand, they might price it higher next time. With that said, there is every reason to price a 50+ piece of gear at over one million gil. Would you blame Ferrari if some envious middle class man robs a bank in order to buy one of their cars? "Well, Ferrari should have priced their cars the same as a Corolla so that everyone could afford one, they're just as much at fault as the bank robber." Please.

your just going on and on but you seem to not get the point.... NEW SERVERS WONT HAVE THAT MUCH GIL LEGITLY is there point so crafters know its from gil sellers or ppl buying gil but dont care thuse i think SE did the right thing and still bannedded crafters that so called did it legit

[Evilchakra]

All my wife did was craft, she didn't like fighting. She truly enjoyed being known for her crafting skills and meeting other players along the way. Not to mention I finally got her to play a game with me that she also enjoyed at the same time. She had 63million gil saved up, all of it being gained LEGIT. The amount of time we both spent (I was the fighter/raider and went and got materials if she ran out, we did not buy them off the marketplace) PLAYING LEGITIMATELY to earn such amount of Gil, and having both of us subscribe for 90 days + buy the digital download for 29.99... I understand SE owns all the rights to this game... but it honestly feels on the edge of illegal for them to do what the did to my wifes account. She has NEVER purchased gil, in fact, her blacklist was almost filled to capacity because she always had to deal with spamming gold fuckers in major cities where she did all her crafting.


Now she won't even touch the game, because of retards who just throw out bans and nuke her in-game wallet without any evidence to show WHY. Not only do i hate the fact this game sucks ass endgame and is boring but i find it outrageous that someone who spent so much time (which you would think there is a log on server-side to show proof she worked hard for every penny that was earned) is punished. Not to mention we spent real money SUBBING to this now HORRIBLE GAME.

For those who think the players who got banned/wallet fkd deserve it, maybe some of them did. But in our case I can assure you the game company completely fucked the wrong person. What a waste of our time and effort, not to mention telling our friends and family to go buy the game (which now we make it our mission to tell all our friends and work mates NOT TO BUY THIS GAME).

Additionally, the idea players were banned because of "dirty money" being traded or what not, its absurd to punish those who had no idea this was even happening. Just because the game devs can't control what was happening in there own game, how the hell were players suppose to realize what was what? We aren't detectives we just PLAYED THE GAME. How is it right you put that responsibility on the PLAYERS? Are you freaking kidding me?

This is one of the worst, laziest, incompetent game releases we have ever experienced. What the hell happened from Beta days to now? Great Job whoever executed this idea.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

i hate to say it, but perhaps there is no full gil/trade traceablity/auditing in game. So that's why a blanket punishment was done. If your not logging all trades etc then their is no audit trail to follow so next best thing is blanket punishment.

I've been thinking this, yeah. I know for a fact MMO studios don't log everything. I'm wondering what SE chose to log in FFXIV ARR, and how much they actually know when they investigate. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't log item names or stuff like that. Also we have to consider that, unlike real-world objects (including representative money, paper etc.) which have a unique identifier (serial number), virtual goods may not always, especially things that are not named uniquely ─i.e., two Vanya Robes have a different ID since there's a crafter name on it, but two shards probably do not; likewise I don't believe they track gils uniquely, only in terms of amount/owner. Which makes it a hell of a guess to know where went what, how, and when. If over 100gils I have 10 that are tainted, and I spend 10 gils at an NPC and give another 10 to a friend, who's to say I gave my friend tainted money or not?

[Susanoh]

Exactly... which is why they left them with some money. If an honest person sold crystals, for example, to RMT for millions and then turned around and bought other items. All the money is bad. SE picked a number , and set the line to get the corrupt money out of the system. If you sold goods to criminals in RL so they in turn could "launder" the money... you are just as guilty as the criminals.

Again, these crafters and gatherers sold hundreds of items, it would be lunacy to think that 99% of it is corrupt. Would you argue that every single purchase on the markets is tainted and illegitimate? Would you argue that everyone who sells anything on the markets is guilty? Would you be ok if everyone who used the markets received punishment? Is it ok to be treated like a criminal in a game for using the game's services as they were intended to be used because of forces outside of your control?

[ArkhamNative]

and they have done their duty by removing the funds from the account holders.

Except they have not done their duty. This was not done in an auditable, per transaction basis. SE removed 99% of the funds from a group of sellers' accounts, accounts where 3%-10% was earned from SE in unquestionably legitimate methods (NPC quests). And they allow the people who provided those funds SE declared counterfeit/stolen to continue playing, without investigation, still using the gear they purchased.

[Nica]

I wish someone who has a problem with how SE handled the aftermath (or even how well they prepared for it, which is what I'm more miffed about) would offer a solid suggestion to how it could have been done better without simply leaving the gil in the game, or having suspended accounts take a month or more to be unsuspended again.

Hiring a competent team to handle the investigations and PR would be a start.

[Nagiisa]

to those saying they didnt banned the ppl who bought the gear

1. unless they have a log that logs evry indavendual gear and peraon the gear has been tradded to/crafted on it be impossiable to trace it

2. again as said before crafters shouldnt of been so gready on a fresh server charging 1+mil for items on a brand new server of corse SE is going to target you and those with large amounts of gil

3. Gil Sellers arnt that stupid to put to big of ammounts of gil on 1 account (unfortinitly) thuse makes it hard to find them

4. again as meny have said unless they loged every single thing its gonna take a good bit of time to do anything

and for all of those who played 11 you all know SE isnt known for there speed THEY love taking there sweet time on anything

again to the OP

really just get over it you keep going on about others so i take it you wernt even effected so what?

no one knows what SE is going to do this could just be temp for all we know they could of just targeted the larger accounts cleaned them till they can figure out if it really was RMT or not for all we know they could get there gil back NO ONE KNOWS

to the guy saying his wife got targeted even though she crafted every day again as i said to the OP we dont knwo what SE has in mind and they dont need to tell us couse then thats just givving the RMTs a way around it which would make this all pointless

again to the OP

you keep going on about real money and real transactions in RL (as do meny others in thsi thread) 1 thing canterfiting isnt easy in RL even harder now adays witht hem changing the ink all the time and the plates and even if they managed it only a few groups would ever be cappable of it which they would have them monitered 24/7 (yes i knwo some does go on)

i dont knwo if your a little kid or what but in RL if your account if found to have conterfit they freaze your account deniing you accsses to everything and may even take everything JUST AS SE DID but SE still allowed ppl to use there accounts