Legit Players Banned/Punished due to RMT *FOR DUMMIES: A GUIDE*

[Tupsi]

There is not enough /facepalm for this.

Indeed, the undercutting is facepalm worthy.

and if people are buying r.ingot at 1 mil when the tomestone items are at 70k, then they're stupid.

According to you it's "not personal preference" though, huh?

[Vod]

I don't believe any of the people who are banned are innocent. I have been making good money on the market, and have not been banned "because some gil buyer bought my stuff". Your friends probably broke the rules somewhere.

[Aenarion]

It's at least partially the seller's own fault for putting their goods up for ridiculously outrageous prices. People would be much less tempted to buy RMT gil if prices were reasonable.

I'm not sure if you realize how terrible the logic you're using is, it's the classic blame the victim routine. Do you blame the victim of a carjacking for driving too nice of a car?

Indeed, the undercutting is facepalm worthy.

only if the undercutting is so severe as make the seller become unprofitable (assuming that isn't his intended goal).

According to you it's "not personal preference" though, huh?

It isn't, do not confuse preference with stupidity. Even in Eve there are those who still cannot grasp the concept of opportunity cost and think the ores they mined are free.

people like you wouldn't survive a day in market systems in games like Eve.

[Kaedan]

I'm not sure if you realize how terrible the logic you're using is, it's the classic blame the victim routine. Do you blame the victim of a carjacking for driving too nice of a car?

I don't think you could have come up with a more terrible analogy. lol

Here's a real life one: If someone steals $1 million dollars from a bank and the authorities can track the stolen money, that money is confiscated from the people it was paid to. That's exactly what SE is doing here. RMT'd money is, for lack of a better term, illegal in the game and is thus confiscated.

As I have now said for the 3rd time, I agree that sellers should get the items that were bought with RMT gil back, but the gil is correctly being removed.

[BHolland]

I remember when I use to read the xbox forums and all the people who claimed they didn't cheat/hack their achievements and trying to argue the fact on that specific account suspension thread and being shot down..Just because someone can defend a lie doesnt mean its still not a lie.

[Codek]

I don't think you could have come up with a more terrible analogy. lol

Here's a real life one: If someone steals $1 million dollars from a bank and the authorities can track the stolen money, that money is confiscated from the people it was paid to. That's exactly what SE is doing here. RMT'd money is, for lack of a better term, illegal in the game and is thus confiscated.

As I have now said for the 3rd time, I agree that sellers should get the items that were bought with RMT gil back, but the gil is correctly being removed.

Even if all the items were returned, it would just crash the market from the huge surplus of goods that would then be put up. I could even guess the value would be around 1% of the original selling price (even now the prices have dropped a bit without the returning of goods). I don't think that would actually solve anything.

[Schubalts]

I remember when I use to read the xbox forums and all the people who claimed they didn't cheat/hack their achievements and trying to argue the fact on that specific account suspension thread and being shot down..Just because someone can defend a lie doesnt mean its still not a lie.

Except for the fact that SE has already deemed these people innocent of knowingly being involved in RMT and reinstated their accounts, but took their gil away anyway..

[Kaedan]

Even if all the items were returned, it would just crash the market from the huge surplus of goods that would then be put up. I could even guess the value would be around 1% of the original selling price (even now the prices have dropped a bit without the returning of goods). I don't think that would actually solve anything.

That's fine. Most items were marked up 100+ times what they should have been anyway. That's what tempted people to buy RMT gil to purchase them.

What's important is that the RMT gil was removed. You're not getting it back and there's no rational argument for why you should get it back. If you don't want the items back and would rather whine some more, I'll take them off your hands!

Except for the fact that SE has already deemed these people innocent of knowingly being involved in RMT and reinstated their accounts, but took their gil away anyway..

The fact they were innocent of knowingly participating in RMT is completely besides the point. If gil was removed, it was gil that was from an RMT source. It's exactly what real police do when they track stolen money... they confiscate it. SE should give the items that were bought with it back, however.

[Codek]

That's fine. Most items were marked up 100+ times what they should have been anyway. That's what tempted people to buy RMT gil to purchase them.

What's important is that the RMT gil was removed. You're not getting it back and there's no rational argument for why you should get it back. If you don't want the items back and would rather whine some more, I'll take them off your hands!

I would just wish it to not crash the market, I like playing it right now!

Maybe a free house! Give those affected a free house in 2.1! or a car!

Better yet:

[Aenarion]

I don't think you could have come up with a more terrible analogy. lol

Don't blame me for your inability to properly comprehend what you read.

First, it was to counter your assertion that crafters were somehow to blame for the illicit activities of others, which is a question of morality, not legality. Inadvertent strawman is still a strawman, try again.

Second, trying to use RL laws and ordinances (which btw, varies depending on jurisdictions) is also terrible, as SE is not beholden to follow those in the slightest within the game world.

Note that I am not actually taking anyone's side here. In my own experience, this who cry foul generally turn out to be guilty in the end, though mistakes do occasionally happen (especially taking into consideration this is SE... gardening anyone?).

What I take issue with are the implications that crafters somehow have a duty to sell stuff as cheaply as possible to buyers, even at a loss, and that not doing so means they are to blame for people buying gil.