OMG Give us an AOE heal that is not worthless!

[ApolloGenX]

Swiftcast cure 2/medica2 is also something whm has over Sch . Who cant use swiftcast to boost their healing as well. The difference between whm and sch tank healing is that sch is forced to use lustrate to keep up due to their much lower healing potency. But the whm is free to save benediction because they wont fall behind in tank healing unless they screw up somehow.

I dunno if I would say forced. The abilities are pretty different. Benediction is an "oh crap" cool down, while lustrate is more of a regular use tool...swiftcast cure 2... is ...okay... still not anything like lustrate. Medica 2 is more of an AoE heal... I don't think I would count succor in SCH tank healing arsenal...

[sharazisspecial]

swiftcast cure 2... is ...okay... still not anything like lustrate

Its about equal to a lustrate, it has a higher potency and a quicker animation. Due to how animation delay works in this game. Instant heals are not truly instant. Targets very often die even when you lustrate them or benediction them. It weakens instant healing. You should ideally never get to that point in the first place. So lustrate and benediction is pretty much a 1.5 second cast time heal.

Spam healing at a higher potency and keeping your tank above a certain hp is just way better for this game then reactionary healing.

I advice people who struggle with healing with to just spam heal.

Btw in the same gear whm heals like 20-40 hp more with cure then sch does with physick. The faerie heals 33% less then sch would with 300 potency.
So sch physick true potency is like 390 potency of whm . Sch faerie embrace is like 210 potency.
Another thing to consider is that spell speed is a wasted stat on sch. Because
1. lustrate and faerie is not affect by it . Sch must wait for faerie to become availible to command it so sch have a gcd of 3 seconds basically.
2. using 2 adlo effects results in wasted potency
How tank damage works in this game is that tanks seem to take a big hit of damage every 3-7 seconds while occasionally taking an instant attack. Due to this delay in damage taken healing spamming adloquium very often will result in wasted potency. So best healing rotation for sch is rotating adlo and physick to avoid wasting potency.

If we compare base healing potency with no cooldowns used we can see sch falls behind
a sch must heal every 3 seconds because the faerie gcd is 3 seconds and is not effected by spell speed. Not commanding faerie to heal and using another physick/adlo would result in lower potency.
a whm can heal asap. so they can heal every 2.42 seconds or less.

In 15 seconds sch would can do
5 *210(1050)embrace + 3*585(1755) adloquium + 2*390(780) physick total potency= 3585
In 15 seconds a whm can do
6.25*650 cure 2(4062) and have 5*150(750) regen ticks total potency= 4812
Every 15 seconds sch must make up 1227 potency to catch up to whm base healing with no cds
Every 60 seconds sch must make up around 3608 potency(regen gcd included) to catch up to whm base healing with no cds
On a 5600 hp tank lustrate would heal 1120 which is around 487 potency. a sch can use 3 lustrate per minute which is 1462 potency. Which means sch still needs 2146potency to catch up to whm. The problem is that whm cooldowns are much superior and further the gap more. 20% uptime Divine seal ,presence of mind,benediction all completely trump sch cooldowns. Whm also makes much better use of food and mind potions .Due to the faerie not receiving any benefit from the mind potion and sch not being able to use spell speed.

Hey apollogenx do you feel sorry for sch now? Still disagree with sch being the worse tank healer for current content?

Another thing that makes whm a superior tank healer is that they can toss a swiftcast 700 potency 20 yard medica 2 Aoe heal then go straight back to tank healing. Or they can regen another target then go straight back to tank healing. Yeah mathmatically whm is the superior tank healer and raid healer. Whm can also raid heal while tank healing much better then sch. There is absolutely zero reason for sch to be such an inferior aoe healer atm.

[Garnatian]

Problem with Adloquim and Succor is that they are healing-confused. They don't know whether they want to absorb incoming damage or heal. So it leads to a situation where, quite often you get half usefulness out of them. Either over-healing for the shield, or healing and getting no use out of the shield.

I feel like Scholar was intended to be a mitgation healer, but unfortunately, just like the Bard, they chickened out and decided with this half and half method leaving the Scholar somewhat in-efficient.

[abeltensor]

Theres a lot wrong with the sch atm compared to whm. Fairy heal says 30ys but its more like 20ys so it moves to heal a target. This is a huge issue. The fairy AI is horrible in general which makes it so you have to micro it but its hard to micro it since it will do its own thing from time to time. As for succor, i can crit for 500 and give a 1k shield. Thats nice and all, but unless the shield comes off my next succor will be at most a 500 hp heal. In a dungeon like coil it becomes painfully apparent how much more powerful a whm is. WHm with its 100% heal every 3 minutes compared to our lustrate which is painfully bad because its a flat 20% heal that only benifits the warrior tanks at high levels. whm can area heal and spot heal at the same time while sch can only spot heal. its simply not how it should be.

[sharazisspecial]

Theres a lot wrong with the sch atm compared to whm. Fairy heal says 30ys but its more like 20ys so it moves to heal a target. This is a huge issue. The fairy AI is horrible in general which makes it so you have to micro it but its hard to micro it since it will do its own thing from time to time. As for succor, i can crit for 500 and give a 1k shield. Thats nice and all, but unless the shield comes off my next succor will be at most a 500 hp heal. In a dungeon like coil it becomes painfully apparent how much more powerful a whm is. WHm with its 100% heal every 3 minutes compared to our lustrate which is painfully bad because its a flat 20% heal that only benifits the warrior tanks at high levels. whm can area heal and spot heal at the same time while sch can only spot heal. its simply not how it should be.

Succor not confirmed to have double shield. Tool tip does not mention critical shields like adloquium does.
I just tested succor and it doesnt seem to have double shield on crit. The shield is equal to the crit heal. Succor does suck lol. There is no justification for it to be so weak when it doesnt even give double shields.

[Shyluv]

I am confused. I don't mean for this to come off as snarky, but.. It seems many people here hate everything Scholar is about. If you truly hate the shields and pet AI, wouldn't it be better to level WHM instead of asking for SCH to be WHM?

SCH don't seem to have as hard a time as people claim. I say that from both observing and while slowly leveling it myself. I've gone into some CM runs and the SCH told me I don't need to heal if I don't want to. So I put up Cleric Stance, and only helped out occasionally with regen. They took care of everyone just fine. Then there have been some others who have said that, but ended up with me having to drop Cleric Stance and heal because they don't have things as figured out as they thought.

Have even had that happen in Garuda and Ifrit HM. I still casted Medica II at least twice, and put regen on a few people. But otherwise the SCH took care of it all while I spammed Stone II.

[sharazisspecial]

I am confused. I don't mean for this to come off as snarky, but.. It seems many people here hate everything Scholar is about. If you truly hate the shields and pet AI, wouldn't it be better to level WHM instead of asking for SCH to be WHM?

SCH don't seem to have as hard a time as people claim. I say that from both observing and while slowly leveling it myself. I've gone into some CM runs and the SCH told me I don't need to heal if I don't want to. So I put up Cleric Stance, and only helped out occasionally with regen. They took care of everyone just fine. Then there have been some others who have said that, but ended up with me having to drop Cleric Stance and heal because they don't have things as figured out as they thought.

Have even had that happen in Garuda and Ifrit HM. I still casted Medica II at least twice, and put regen on a few people. But otherwise the SCH took care of it all while I spammed Stone II.

This is what anyone who cares about being the best for their fc is doing. Just like every warrior is rolling paladin until se fix warrior. Sch are either rolling whm or going into groups where this is definately another whm. This game discourages you from playing multiple class due to mytho cap which can only be allocated to one job and your alt will always be inferior in gear.

Btw garuda and ifrit especially are jokes that can be healed easily by 1 healer. Ifrit and cm could probally be healed naked.
Sch is mathmatically inferior to whm, warrior is mathmatically inferior to pld.
Did you ignore the calculations i posted? Are you trying to argue against mathematical fact?
In cutting edge content thats were balance actually start to matter and where balance start to cause more wipes or giving you the boost you need to succeed. Fact of the matter is no whm in your coil 4 pt? no win for you. There is not a single fight where a sch is absolutely nessary to win but there are a few fights where whm is required and a few whm where a whm in pt makes everything much easier.

Double sch , single sch , full tank , full smn whatever dumb pt make up could beat ifrit,garuda and cm. These are not fights that are hindered by class balance (because are very lenient and have a large margain for error)
The fact that ifrit, garuda and cm are on duty finder farm mode is also proof of that.

An example you could understand. If you used a luvdisc you could probally beat the main story of pokemon very easy with it. However when it comes to actual serious and challenging part of pokemon such as competitive battles and battle tower boss. Your underpowered luvdisc would not serve you well. Sch and warrior are luvdisc that need to be compensated by having at least 1 whm /paladin in the pt who will pick your slack or being replaced entirely.

Please do double sch, double warrior coil 4 for me.Then tell me how a sch can do everything a whm can.

You can probally do ifrit and cm with blm/smn healers lol or even just using regen and fairy alone. Content that doesnt you to your limits is not what the jobs should be balanced around.

[Lrron]

Forgive me if I'm missing the point, but why did your math not include the additional 1755 preventative shield component from adloquium? While that component isn't technically a heal, it sort of leaves the math incomplete, in my opinion. If you're going to take the full value of each spell and throw out things like overhealing and clipping to show raw potential numbers, then shouldn't you include the offset made by the shield too? I'm not saying the shield should be included in the heal potency math itself, but rather as a side note that potentially covers some of the numbers that whm puts up over sch. Afterall, the way I look at it, that's an extra 1755 hit points the tank has because of the full value usage of adloquium.

[sharazisspecial]

The math does include the shield. The math is based on potency. How much damage can a whm and a sch heal in xxx seconds.

Adlo is 600 potency total or 585 potency compared to whm since sch heals less with the same gear.

585 *3 =1755 total potency or 887 potency shield in 15 seconds. So around 25% of sch healing is from adlloquium shielding.
3548 potency shielded in 60 seconds

OK the math shows how far behind sch is in total potency even factoring in lustrate. Now i didnt even factor in whm 20% uptime of divine seal or benediction.

Whm can keep up a tank who taking xxxx amount of potency in damage. They can heal that much in 15 seconds . If you have done coil you know that tank healing is all about not falling behind which whm is superior at. Sch will find it hard to keep a up a tank taking continuously high damage. Since when they run out lustrate their healing potency is much weaker then the very consistent whm.

To calculate over healing it would depend on the boss in question and how often they hit and how hard they hit.

One thing is certain whm is not a bad tank healer at all , so why are schs such bad aoe healers? What exactly justifies whm aoe healing more then double a sch can

[Noctrin]

The issue is this, appearances in easier dungeons fool you. WHM and SCH are designed to complement each other-- the shield creates a buffer in hp, which makes it easier for the whm to heal. So a good scholar will be able to prevent a good chunk of damage with their CDs and the whm will easily top it off whit a bit more room for error in reaction time.

Issue is, when things get serious, the shield kinda becomes a joke, with people having way more hp and things hitting way harder, the shield just doesn't do it anymore and it becomes a reactive game. Reactive healing just isn't the SCH strong point and due to the terrible scaling on harder fights, the poor fairy ai and our much lower potency esp for aoe heals, the difference becomes apparent. At this point, it just becomes more viable to stack whm rather than using a sch for their buffers and damage reductions, because they just don't do enough to justify their weaker heals.

That's my take on it. I think SE had a good idea, but judging by the poor pet AI and bugs, it just seems they rushed it without proper testing for how it scales.

There are plenty of solutions to the issue that keeps sch unique. I'd just start with making shields stack better and have better potency (maybe based on hp percentage of the target in some way). If succor kept its 150 potency but added a shield for 7-10% of the players hp plus 1/2 of the potency, it would suddenly be useful and wouldn't gimp us for tank healing for using it either as the tank would get a proper shield rather than some 400hp the boss will sneeze off. Then give us an aetherflow based buff which turns the shield +20% into healing. Since we only have 3 a minute, we'd have to pick wisely.

I don't think this would make us godly, you'd still need the whm for raw healing, but we could actually do some decent damage prevention and some much needed burst for those "oh shit" moments.