SQUARE-ENIX, remember not to marginalise crafters

[Nikita]

This whole "dungeons should drop crafting mats" arguement brings up another issue.

If the dungeons drop materials, this "shiny gear" will have to be tradeable. Will I be going into dungeons on my CON for caster gear only to be rolled against on it by a jerk who can't even use the gear that these materials produce because he wants to sell the gear? Or even the mats? Will the drops be untradeable? Hmm...

[AlexiaKidd]

This whole "dungeons should drop crafting mats" arguement brings up another issue.

If the dungeons drop materials, this "shiny gear" will have to be tradeable. Will I be going into dungeons on my CON for caster gear only to be rolled against on it by a jerk who can't even use the gear that these materials produce because he wants to sell the gear? Or even the mats? Will the drops be untradeable? Hmm...

Which if this is the case for open world NM's then we go back to people with claim bot's farming them for gill.

[Mikita]

I'm not leveling my crafting/gathering classes for myself. But to be a helpful member of the community (like ppl should have done) Many crafters only did it to be self sufficant or to make gil. Which wasn't the point of it. A true community has those who fight, those who gather and those who craft. Most mmorpg are based around the "dark ages". Where we had hunters gather food for the town, where chefs make the food to feed others. I enjoy crafting as classes. Just players need to get out of the current mindset for a more community based one.
SE was NOT at fault here. It was the players who became stuck up and didn't think on terms of community.

Ah! So it was you who visited Saronia for a little while. I wish you had told me who you were. ^^

Anyway, just as there is no right or wrong reason to fight monsters, there's no right or wrong reason to craft or gather -- be it self-sufficiency, making money, or being helpful to the community.

I started so I would be able to repair my own equipment. Once I got to a level where I could actually make things that people wanted, that is where the real fun began and I now get my greatest pleasure from making items that friends request. A side effect of crafting was making enough gil to never have to worry about it (through selling in the markets -- I don't like to take money from friends).


I'm glad FF14 has such a developed crafting and gathering system. But fully accept that it is not for everyone.

There is a lot of anti-crafting sentiment here on the forum, but fortunately in-game (at least what I can see) feelings are a lot more balanced.

[Amineri]

This whole "dungeons should drop crafting mats" arguement brings up another issue.

If the dungeons drop materials, this "shiny gear" will have to be tradeable. Will I be going into dungeons on my CON for caster gear only to be rolled against on it by a jerk who can't even use the gear that these materials produce because he wants to sell the gear? Or even the mats? Will the drops be untradeable? Hmm...

I think that this is a fundamental design issue that SE will need to correct at some point.

The first set of NMs dropped materials for crafting, which of necessity was trade-able, thus leading to farming etc. Except that in this case, the gear wasn't all that great, so the farming quickly dropped off.

The second set of NMs dropped unique / untradable gear, thus reducing the camping and its subsequent problems, but in order for the gear to be useful, had to be finish gear, thus marginalizing the craft / gather segment of the population and leading to the issue of "which gear is better?"

Ultimately, I'd propose a system in which the materials are drops yet unique / untradable, and adding a system where a crafter can create items using another player's materials, similar to the seek item function. This is kind of clunky and probably would be pretty hated, though, so it's not really the best solution.

Another alternative is to have these rare/unique drops come from Grand Company - specific missions, and the results are automatically stored in the company vault, where crafters undertake 'missions' to turn these materials into the rare and wonderful items. Players would earn company marks by completing various company missions (all class types) and would then exchange these marks for the final goods. This also allows rare materials gathered from NMs to be used in craft / gather gear as well as battle gear, while minimizing the 'camping' issue.

My ½ cent

[Physic]

Ah! So it was you who visited Saronia for a little while. I wish you had told me who you were. ^^

Anyway, just as there is no right or wrong reason to fight monsters, there's no right or wrong reason to craft or gather -- be it self-sufficiency, making money, or being helpful to the community.

I started so I would be able to repair my own equipment. Once I got to a level where I could actually make things that people wanted, that is where the real fun began and I now get my greatest pleasure from making items that friends request. A side effect of crafting was making enough gil to never have to worry about it (through selling in the markets -- I don't like to take money from friends).


I'm glad FF14 has such a developed crafting and gathering system. But fully accept that it is not for everyone.

There is a lot of anti-crafting sentiment here on the forum, but fortunately in-game (at least what I can see) feelings are a lot more balanced.

they hate you ingame too, they just using you for your craftins! heh jk sorta. buts its amazing how much closet crafting hate there is here.

[Physic]

I think that this is a fundamental design issue that SE will need to correct at some point.

The first set of NMs dropped materials for crafting, which of necessity was trade-able, thus leading to farming etc. Except that in this case, the gear wasn't all that great, so the farming quickly dropped off.

The second set of NMs dropped unique / untradable gear, thus reducing the camping and its subsequent problems, but in order for the gear to be useful, had to be finish gear, thus marginalizing the craft / gather segment of the population and leading to the issue of "which gear is better?"

Ultimately, I'd propose a system in which the materials are drops yet unique / untradable, and adding a system where a crafter can create items using another player's materials, similar to the seek item function. This is kind of clunky and probably would be pretty hated, though, so it's not really the best solution.

Another alternative is to have these rare/unique drops come from Grand Company - specific missions, and the results are automatically stored in the company vault, where crafters undertake 'missions' to turn these materials into the rare and wonderful items. Players would earn company marks by completing various company missions (all class types) and would then exchange these marks for the final goods. This also allows rare materials gathered from NMs to be used in craft / gather gear as well as battle gear, while minimizing the 'camping' issue.

My ½ cent

i think they are going to add something where the crafter can craft from other items, or else how is the materia system going to work properly. But really, not everything is going to be unique, some of it is going to be money items, the fact that you can get it in a dunegeon means you will probably make your agreements about the drops before it happens.

[LlenCoram]

I've tried my best to avoid adding to this 'discussion', but here goes nothing :

1) "How could a weaver bring down the Empire?"

Ex: Many assassins were sent after the Garlean Emperor, for the rulers of the city-states knew that without him, his generals would squabble amongst themselves over the reins of power, this giving them the time to catch up technologically. However, all efforts were in vain, until the "Legendary Moonlight Weaver" succeeded in finally creating the epic Robe of Moonbeams by spinning the moonlight. Armed with the Robe, an assassin was finally able to penetrate the previously impossible security to assassinate the Emperor, and thus the Empire was tumbled.

It's not that hard to come up with ways for crafters / gatherers to influence grand events.

2) Combat is more fun

Let me point out that some people enjoy playing Sudoku, some people enjoy playing chess, and some people enjoy playing paintball. These are all equally valid forms of enjoyment -- but different people have different preferences. Yet no one says "let's eliminate paintball" because chess is "funner".

To my mind, crafting is more about puzzle solving, while gathering satisfies those that prefer exploration. Battle, as is usual, satisfies those that crave conflict.

Each of the paths - combat, crafting, and gathering cater to different playstyles / preferences.

3) Crafting is boring while combat is fun

All (crafting, gathering, combat) consist of highly repetitive, and somewhat engaging gameplay. The goal is to make little numbers go up (SP, XP, marks, etc), get better gear that allows one to perform said tasks better (whether it's a +3 Aeolian Scimitar or a +3 Iron Dolabra, a +3 Vintage Hauby or a Dodore Doublet). The goal is to find challenges and to overcome them.

All of the classes have the same TYPE of progression and engagement mechanism, at least in theory.

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All of the classes suffer from a lack of engaging game play. There aren't battle encounters that are fun and engaging, most of them are annoying easy and/or highly repetitive, scaling up until monsters one-shot party AoE party members with TP abilities. There isn't a group crafting mechanism, or particularly epic crafts, since crafting recipes end at rank 50. There also isn't a group gathering mechanic, nor NM-quality gathering nodes or something similar, as (botany and mining at least) stop at grade 5 points, which is approximately rank 43.

All the classes need improving of their game play. Battle actually has it the best currently, since there are enemies up to rank 99, yet battle is being reworked first. Even if you are a player that does not enjoy the game-style of crafting or gathering, please please PLEASE recognize that there are those people that do them, and would like to see the innovative vision in the game reach full fruition.

I love the well written and well thought out post, but you got a like for using the word "funner." Well done.

[Mikita]

they hate you ingame too, they just using you for your craftins! heh jk sorta. buts its amazing how much closet crafting hate there is here.

Haha! ^^

Unfortunately it's not even "closet" crafting hate -- it's rather open hate. ^^;

I belong to 2 medium/large Linkshells and almost everyone has a high rank crafting or gathering class, or two or three, which they actually enjoy. But that's balanced against those same people also having high rank battle classes as well.

A lot of the game is designed around letting people find their own path to enjoyment and building up their character in the way they like.

Too bad many people forget that having diversity is what makes a world vibrant.

[Nikita]

i think they are going to add something where the crafter can craft from other items, or else how is the materia system going to work properly. But really, not everything is going to be unique, some of it is going to be money items, the fact that you can get it in a dunegeon means you will probably make your agreements about the drops before it happens.

As to the materia system, I thought that the crafters would actually create materia physically, otherwise it is just enhanting an item basically. If they created physical items, they could sell them to players and the players would apply them directly to their gear. This also let's them sell materia while offline.

[KaiKatzchen]

wow a lot of crafter haters here.
Really yall should focus on improving the game, not on destroying why other people enjoy the game.

Agreed, it seems most of the hate here is coming from people who don't like crafting. Just because person A doesn't like to craft and thinks its pointless doesn't mean person B feels the same. I love crafting, helping people that need things and repairing stuff. Not every crafts for their own selfish reason or just to repair their own stuff or make money.

I actually don't really make any money because I make stuff for my shell, and repair stuff for little gil because I just want to help people. So seeing people put down crafter's, who for the most part want to help people like them, and say that crafter's are less because they aren't fighters like them seems rude to me.