WAR and Wrath: Important Mechanics Discussed.

[HiirNoivl]

People always hate on success that "shouldn't happen"

[Gamemako]

Protip: people are hating on the massive, glaring gap between PLD and WAR. WAR has no real advantages whatsoever over PLD right now. The most effective way to play WAR is as a gimped PLD. All you get out of WAR is a badge that says you could have used a PLD and gotten it done much more easily. This isn't good. This isn't fun. This isn't balanced. It needs to be fixed.

[Junk4Brains]

Protip: people are hating on the massive, glaring gap between PLD and WAR. WAR has no real advantages whatsoever over PLD right now. The most effective way to play WAR is as a gimped PLD. All you get out of WAR is a badge that says you could have used a PLD and gotten it done much more easily. This isn't good. This isn't fun. This isn't balanced. It needs to be fixed.

I have to say I disagree. I find WAR very fun. And very good. And I don't care that PLD can get it done easier. Easy is not fun for me. 98% of this game is already laughably too easy. I like that WAR offers some challenging and engaging gameplay in an other wise lack luster game with watered downed.... **coughcough* I mean 'streamlined' mechanics. Not everything needs to be balanced. Some people actually enjoy playing games on harder difficulty settings where they are at a disadvantage and have to rely on player skill to win rather than overly forgiving game mechanics.

[Gamemako]

I have to say I disagree. I find WAR very fun. And very good.

I see from your profile that you are talking about early-game, where WAR is really fine. That has never been the issue. As you get into endgame content, WAR suffers immensely. Review information on Titan HM and BC. There are quite a few good threads here breaking down the math of how WAR completely falls apart.

Also, everything does need to be balanced. Persistent games have persistent rewards. If you want challenge, there are difficulty settings and commensurate rewards. Furthermore, when you play a team game, your gimped choice doesn't require more skill on your part, it just requires more skill on the part of your team. That you can be carried does not speak to your skill at all, nor does it make anyone want to bring your gimpy arse to the difficult content.

[Junk4Brains]

I see from your profile that you are talking about early-game, where WAR is really fine. That has never been the issue. As you get into endgame content, WAR suffers immensely. Review information on Titan HM and BC. There are quite a few good threads here breaking down the math of how WAR completely falls apart.

Also, everything does need to be balanced. Persistent games have persistent rewards. If you want challenge, there are difficulty settings and commensurate rewards. Furthermore, when you play a team game, your gimped choice doesn't require more skill on your part, it just requires more skill on the part of your team. That you can be carried does not speak to your skill at all, nor does it make anyone want to bring your gimpy arse to the difficult content.

No, I've actually done up to Coil 3. A bit of Coil 4. I started that character but my neighbor has FFXIV and we play a shared character.
And yeah, sometimes the challenge IS the reward. Why does everyone always need to be reward for every little thing. Why can't people just enjoy a challenge just for the sake of being challenged. And while I agree that it takes a good player to bring the best out in PLD and a good party to bring out the best in WAR. That does no way shape or form imply the WAR is being carried. WAR isn't gimp so much as it has a lower margin for error. I die just as much because of my own mistakes as well as mistakes of my other party members. With a PLD it just means your party can afford to make more mistakes... and as such a PLD is 'carrying' the party. A WAR isn't build to 'carry' the party but everyone has to do their fair share to succeed. And some people are just too accustomed to lazy play and its just easier say WAR is gimp rather than adjust their playstyle than look to where they could have improved their own performance. But as a 'team game' what makes or breaks a party is not how well each person functions individually but how they function together.

Like I don't get why so many WAR's I've read on here want a 'stone skin effect' on their Inner Beast when all you have to do is COMMUNICATE with your healers. Just say. "Hey I'm about to use Inner Beast, swap out our next heal for stoneskin." And tada..you basically get the same effect. Ultimately though, funny as it sounds, PLD makes WAR stronger and WAR makes a PLD stronger. So the two tank classes will always be stronger working together than trying to out do each other. Comparatively yes, PLD has the advantage but objectively both tanks have their means being effective in all content.

Right now to me there are only 2 kinds of WAR.
The kind that spend all their time on forums QQ'ing about it and the kind that spend most of their time in the game actually enjoying the class they play. But as history has shown it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Can't say that is a day I am particularly looking forward to as the challenge WAR provides is probably the only...well not only but one of the few things keeping me interested in the game.

[RapBreon]

Like I don't get why so many WAR's I've read on here want a 'stone skin effect' on their Inner Beast when all you have to do is COMMUNICATE with your healers. Just say. "Hey I'm about to use Inner Beast, swap out our next heal for stoneskin." And tada..you basically get the same effect. Ultimately though, funny as it sounds, PLD makes WAR stronger and WAR makes a PLD stronger. So the two tank classes will always be stronger working together than trying to out do each other. Comparatively yes, PLD has the advantage but objectively both tanks have their means being effective in all content.

I'm not trying to spark anything here, but you either haven't healed or tanked Coil's 'tank purge' phases. Aka Double dread (or even a 4x dread) or a billion stack Caudacus. In these situations, a tank death more often than not happens within a global. Both tanks at full health with no CD's are equally susceptible to this. Healers literally have to spam their heals (even if the tank is at full health) to avoid this, cancelling your cast shouldn't happen in these situations. The difference is the Paladin can rotate MORE cooldowns that are also MORE effective.

So, communicating your usage of IB amounts to nothing, though I have serious doubts a Warrior can MT T4, I'm always on adds spamming mah overpower. Any other content that requires low or moderate tank attention communicating is helpful, but usually that content isn't stressful enough to worry about a wasted global.

Also to OP; stacking CD's is the quickest way to ensure you die in the next burst phase guaranteed.

[VahnValbosce]

Also to OP; stacking CD's is the quickest way to ensure you die in the next burst phase guaranteed.

All these replies are funny.

Because it's been our 10th attempt at Turn 4 Coil and we're already at last phase, just need to sort out the aggro and we've got it down. I hold my wrath and blow ALL my GCD's when I'm tanking the multiple mob waves, and it helps out the healers a ton. Not having a problem whatsoever in Turn 4 Coil. Only problem with our group not downing Turn 4 is not enough DPS, that's it.

Will be back here with screenshot when Turn 4 Coil is down. Expect to happen within the next few days as we're getting a geared BLM to step in for our SMN who doesn't have very much gear.

I'd really hate to heal someone who actually blows all of their cooldowns at once like you posit you're supposed to.

Ah who I am kidding, it's not like Warrior CD's even make a difference.

Expect to see Screenshot of me downing Turn 4 Coil within the next few days. (Already have a Screenshot of Paradigm that beat it with WAR, different FC on my server)

[VahnValbosce]

Right now to me there are only 2 kinds of WAR.
The kind that spend all their time on forums QQ'ing about it and the kind that spend most of their time in the game actually enjoying the class they play. But as history has shown it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Can't say that is a day I am particularly looking forward to as the challenge WAR provides is probably the only...well not only but one of the few things keeping me interested in the game.

Amen, brother.

[Anienai]

Right now to me there are only 2 kinds of WAR.
The kind that spend all their time on forums QQ'ing about it and the kind that spend most of their time in the game actually enjoying the class they play. But as history has shown it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Can't say that is a day I am particularly looking forward to as the challenge WAR provides is probably the only...well not only but one of the few things keeping me interested in the game.

Testify!!!!!!

[Taemek]

No, I've actually done up to Coil 3. A bit of Coil 4. I started that character but my neighbor has FFXIV and we play a shared character.
And yeah, sometimes the challenge IS the reward. Why does everyone always need to be reward for every little thing. Why can't people just enjoy a challenge just for the sake of being challenged. And while I agree that it takes a good player to bring the best out in PLD and a good party to bring out the best in WAR. That does no way shape or form imply the WAR is being carried. WAR isn't gimp so much as it has a lower margin for error. I die just as much because of my own mistakes as well as mistakes of my other party members. With a PLD it just means your party can afford to make more mistakes... and as such a PLD is 'carrying' the party. A WAR isn't build to 'carry' the party but everyone has to do their fair share to succeed. And some people are just too accustomed to lazy play and its just easier say WAR is gimp rather than adjust their playstyle than look to where they could have improved their own performance. But as a 'team game' what makes or breaks a party is not how well each person functions individually but how they function together.

Like I don't get why so many WAR's I've read on here want a 'stone skin effect' on their Inner Beast when all you have to do is COMMUNICATE with your healers. Just say. "Hey I'm about to use Inner Beast, swap out our next heal for stoneskin." And tada..you basically get the same effect. Ultimately though, funny as it sounds, PLD makes WAR stronger and WAR makes a PLD stronger. So the two tank classes will always be stronger working together than trying to out do each other. Comparatively yes, PLD has the advantage but objectively both tanks have their means being effective in all content.

Right now to me there are only 2 kinds of WAR.
The kind that spend all their time on forums QQ'ing about it and the kind that spend most of their time in the game actually enjoying the class they play. But as history has shown it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Can't say that is a day I am particularly looking forward to as the challenge WAR provides is probably the only...well not only but one of the few things keeping me interested in the game.

Well said Junk and good luck in turn 4.