[war]Parsing +10 dex allotment, basic "just 50" gear, currently maximizing for parry.

[Giantbane]

so what have we learned? I have an average around 19.00% parry rate with my early level, and a few +1 accessories.

Actually i think your parser is misleading you. Assuming I'm reading this right, you parry 83 hits out of 439 swings (18.91%). However, if you look closer, you'll notice that the monster only hit 356 times and missed 64 times. I'm willing to bet you can't parry a miss, so I don't think it should be counting those. So a more accurate representation is likely to be 83/356 = 23.31% parry rate.

My parry is 477 and my dex is 202. If I brought my dex up to 211, I would hit the next parry rate, which would make this number much higher.

perhaps my understanding of the plateaus is poor, but doesn't each step only boost the base rate by 1%? That doesn't strike me as a much higher number. What am I missing?

This stat is pure damage mitigation based on a percentage, and scales quite nicely with DPS.

Lets say a mob does 10 times that damage in 6 minutes, for a face melting 850dps.

With JUST parry ALONE, no protect, no foresite, no no self healing, ignoring dodge, WITH MY TERRIBAD STATS, mitigated 41dps doing absolutely nothing.

Was anybody debating this? I didn't see it.

I think people had two issues with your posts:

1) 25% parry rate + 25% parry amount = 15% overall mitigation (in all caps no less). See below

2) You were very insistent that WAR parry needed to be included in the comparison to PLD because it would bring the classes closer together. However, PLD can also parry and they get shield block so it does not seem like this is going to influence things in the WARs favor. You are likely (at least as I understand it) correct that the block check happens first. And you have inferred (also correctly as I understand things) that given equal gear, mitigation provided by WAR parry % is likely to be > mitigation provided by PLD parry % (while holding a shield). However, with your insistence that including parry and shield block would bring greater parity, you're implying that the mitigation provided by WAR parry % > mitigation provided by PLD parry % + PLD shield block %. This implication makes no sense to me. Many others also took issue with this apparent assessment.

PS: my theory is that we have a constant 15% damage mitigation from passive abilities. Whatever people. Pick apart everything I say. Have a nice night.

I reread the first few pages of the damage mitigation thread. I have absolutely no idea how you expected anyone to come to the conclusion that this is what you meant. Most reasonable people will read what you had posted in the other thread and take away that you were insisting high parry + 211 dex was providing 15% damage reduction based on your parses.

[dandelions]

Lol... these are a bunch of numbers, which are currently meaningless unless you plan on using these as a baseline to compare to say, a Paladin with the exact same stats beating on the exact same mobs. You'd also have to run this for hours on end on multiple tests (minimize variance of RNG) before you could consider any of the data collected to be worthwhile.

Every post you make seems to confirm you have no clue what you're talking about.


Begin helping yourself by making a hypothesis, collecting a baseline data set, then changing only 1 variable, and recording more data. Compare the two, realize that correlation does not equal causation, state that it matches or disagrees with your hypothesis, think of outside variables that could have influenced the data (better yet do more tests to eliminate possible outside variables), and finally you can begin to make valuable posts on these forums.

[Lhun]

2) snip* Many others also took issue with this apparent assessment. + Was anybody debating this? I didn't see it.

Yes, people completely ignored the mitigated DPS from many other things, including simply foresite armor bonus, the benefit our higher HP pool has to scholar heals, stoneskin, etc.

Because you have to add everything else warrior has in his kit, because that's what actually happens during a fight, because that's the real world results. You MUST add block and parry total mitigation from PLD to get a final number along with a lot of other things.

I misspoke plenty of times. Check the times on my posts. I'm in EDT, and I'm very tired most nights with a young child in school.

I'm bound to make a ton more mistakes then usual on the forum, but whatever. Plenty of people have made way worse assumptions and mistakes, but the worst part about all of this is that I'm trying to help everyone playing warrior, on my own free time after work for nothing other then the fact that I enjoy the game I'm playing and I'm sick of people thinking that because one incredibly difficult, tuned for a different version of the game dungeon shows a discrepancy between the two jobs, an actually really great effective and powerful job type is completely thrown aside by the majority of the endgame players due to hive-mind mentality.

perhaps my understanding of the plateaus is poor, but doesn't each step only boost the base rate by 1%? That doesn't strike me as a much higher number. What am I missing?

That is not my understanding of how it works. Increasing the stat "parry" increases your parry rate, but it's multiplied by dex in some way that nobody has a hard number for yet. If my rate is indeed 23.3% as you say and the parser is off, that's even better, pretty and with VERY high parry stats could be a great deal of damage mitigated indeed.

Lol... these are a bunch of numbers, which are currently meaningless unless you plan on using these as a baseline to compare to say, a Paladin with the exact same stats beating on the exact same mobs. You'd also have to run this for hours on end on multiple tests (minimize variance of RNG) before you could consider any of the data collected to be worthwhile.

You're free to do that, and it would be a fantastic thing to do. I have yet to see some good parry + block data from a PLD who is bonusing his regular stats for damage mitigation (not also going for parry. Do what works overall).

I personally would love that comparison. I'm trying to spread knowledge. Most of you want me to just shut up. Okay, I will.

[Lhun]

Lol... these are a bunch of numbers, which are currently meaningless unless you plan on using these as a baseline to compare to say, a Paladin with the exact same stats beating on the exact same mobs. You'd also have to run this for hours on end on multiple tests (minimize variance of RNG) before you could consider any of the data collected to be worthwhile.

Every post you make seems to confirm you have no clue what you're talking about.


Begin helping yourself by making a hypothesis, collecting a baseline data set, then changing only 1 variable, and recording more data. Compare the two, realize that correlation does not equal causation, state that it matches or disagrees with your hypothesis, think of outside variables that could have influenced the data (better yet do more tests to eliminate possible outside variables), and finally you can begin to make valuable posts on these forums.

This is not my job. You seem to have a very firm grasp of the scientific method.
How about you go do that for us and come back with the results. I look forward to them.

I would like to go play my game now and have some dinner.

Unlike most of you, I really appreciate what Hachiko and others have done to publish data on things we seem to disagree on.
I take no offense to it, and I think unless you have a devil's advocate, you can't truly sharpen your pencil and be ABSOLUTELY SURE what you claim is COMPLETELY TRUE.

If everyone just accepted "war is broken" and nobody challenged that assumption, we would never know HOW (or NOT) broken it actually is.

I'm hoping for a COMPLETE balance between the tanks, with an equal level of utility for both, in DIFFERENT boss types. I don't mind if one boss is better for PLD or another is better for WAR. That would be good. Right now people are saying EVERYTHING is better for PLD at endgame, and I PERSONALLY (and yoshi-p too apparently) think that's wrong. You're free and welcome to disagree. That doesn't bother me - just prove it! And use stats parsed from WAR, not PLD, to do so.

The big problem is that if it turns out War actually isn't all that broken, and it gets a significant buff, the same thing will happen to PLD that's happening to WAR right now: And that's BAD. VERY BAD, because it'll cause rampant nerfbat and buffing in an attempt to appease the players and fixed the huge imbalance they might actually cause. If they nerf PLD instead (which they might do) most people will FREAK OUT.

Do you want that?

[Giantbane]

Yes, people completely ignored the mitigated DPS from many other things, including simply foresite armor bonus,

Post 6, the OP includes the cooldowns you requested. It further skews things in the PLD favor as was expected.

the benefit our higher HP pool has to scholar heals, stoneskin, etc.

I'm going to beg that you at least consider the possibility that you're wrong here, I'll let someone else explain it

Because you have to add everything else warrior has in his kit, because that's what actually happens during a fight, because that's the real world results. You MUST add block and parry total mitigation from PLD to get a final number along with a lot of other things.

Again, please reference that post #6.

A) I believe it covers both classes toolkits save parry, shield block and rage of halone. WAR gets parry, PLD gets parry + shield block + rage of halone. Before you ask somebody to redo their math with these included, I think you first need to explain (clearly) why it is you think this is going to tilt things in the WARs favor. I don't see how that's possible, and neither does anybody else as far as I can tell.

B) The math provided actually greatly underestimates the real world effectiveness of Sentinel or Hallowed Ground since those are often saved for periods of very high incoming damage. The result is that the amount mitigated is often much greater than simply calculating their mitigation by applying it to the average enemy DPS over the duration of the ability. It also does not really touch on the relative real world effectiveness of damage reduction as mitigation (always useful) vs healing as mitigation (overheals).

[dandelions]

This is not my job. You seem to have a very firm grasp of the scientific method.
How about you go do that for us and come back with the results. I look forward to them.

I would like to go play my game now and have some dinner.

The scientific method is directly applicable to this situation, it's the reason why the other posters are showing you that you are full of shit and can't support your claims.

To begin with, you are testing parry rates on level 47 mobs, which in just about any MMO I've played, automatically means you get bonuses to parry/dodge/etc rates because the level/resistance/etc.. difference. There are so many other variables alone that can influence parry rates and yet you think auto attacking low level mobs for 30 minutes is a reliable data set without even comparing it to anything else. Ridiculous.

It would be glorious if you stopped posting, because contrary to your delusional self-opinion, you are indeed the king of "misinformation" as it was quoted.

[Lhun]

Okay then. What an enormous waste of time all of this has been. I hope you ruin the game's balance as you all seem to be steamrolling off to do. Toodles.

[Phreak]

Okay then. What an enormous waste of time all of this has been. I hope you ruin the game's balance as you all seem to be steamrolling off to do. Toodles.

Is it over? Can we theory craft and do maths in peace once again without someone throwing imaginary wrenches at us labelled 'WAR > PLD' ?

[Coramac]

Actually i think your parser is misleading you. Assuming I'm reading this right, you parry 83 hits out of 439 swings (18.91%). However, if you look closer, you'll notice that the monster only hit 356 times and missed 64 times. I'm willing to bet you can't parry a miss, so I don't think it should be counting those. So a more accurate representation is likely to be 83/356 = 23.31% parry rate.

Most games use a 1 roll hit table. FFXIV may not, but I wouldn't count it out.

[Tanaya]

This is not my job. You seem to have a very firm grasp of the scientific method.
How about you go do that for us and come back with the results. I look forward to them.

I would like to go play my game now and have some dinner.

That's not how the burden of proof works.

The way how it works is if you present a hypothesis that goes against the status quo, it is your job to prove that your hypothesis is correct. The burden of proof is not on the ones who does not believe your hypothesis.

In other words, you can't halfass your research and then tell someone else to prove your point.