Why cant we play Garlean empire?

[Niota]

Also, in 1.xx, it is shown that the Garlean Empire actually brainwashed children of lands they concurred. On top of that, it is made mention in several places, that when the Empire takes over a land, they uses these new "citizens" as front line troops, often forcibly.

I also have to argue against appeasing the Elementals as the only way to live in the Black Shroud. The Moon Keeper families of miqo'tes have been living in the forest and been at odds with Gridania for years. The so called "poachers" could just be families living off the resources of the forest, but because they work outside the Elemental's will are branded as law breakers.

[Enkidoh]

Gridania is an odd case, as although the elementals are definitely ruthless, dangerous and unpredictable, you also have to remember they preceded any of the five races appearing in Eorzea. They regarded the Black Shroud as theirs because the forest always been theirs and theirs alone - everyone else are just interlopers.

Having said that though, the stories of the forest being an angry aggressor who doesn't tolerate insolence lightly is mostly either Gridanian propaganda or grossly exaggerated - even the Garleans were able to storm Moonspore Grove and slaughter the sylphs with little effort, and, by the time of ARR, erect a stronghold right on Gridania's doorstep. Either way, although it might not be an easy thing to accept, there definitely is reason to the madness of having a nation's every move and decision dictated by the unpredictable whims of an immortal race of aetheric fairies.

[shinros]

Also, in 1.xx, it is shown that the Garlean Empire actually brainwashed children of lands they concurred. On top of that, it is made mention in several places, that when the Empire takes over a land, they uses these new "citizens" as front line troops, often forcibly.

I also have to argue against appeasing the Elementals as the only way to live in the Black Shroud. The Moon Keeper families of miqo'tes have been living in the forest and been at odds with Gridania for years. The so called "poachers" could just be families living off the resources of the forest, but because they work outside the Elemental's will are branded as law breakers.

Yeah there is a sidequest with a "poacher" saying that she was just trying to feed her little brother and you let her go the quest giver was quite upset. Considering they helped you in the main quest I don't think all of them are bad in my opinion.

Plus not healing a dying man because of the "wood" made me angry to an insane degree considering they are fighting for their homeland. Personally I would not want to live in a place like that, I bet the only reason why they are revising these rules about outsiders etc because bahamut owned the elementals and weakened them.

Plus the uldhans standing by while a refugee was going to be sold into sexual slavery the whole of raubhan speech was about stop being greedy bastards and asshats.

[Renvalt]

Pure-blooded Garleans all have third-eyes. It's that little white "zit" looking thing on their foreheads. Cid and Nero are the only people who have theirs shown, and the helms of some of the Garlean Soldiers have little fixtures that could allow for a third-eye kind of vision on them.

In the case of Cid, he keeps his third eye concealed under his goggles - you only learn about it once he takes them off. Not to mention, Cid even states it's a not-very-well-known fact about Garleans.

Which of course, makes Rhitatyn the only non-Garlean member of the Tribunes (he's a Galka).

[Niota]

I don't want to spoil White Mage quest line here so read at your own risk.
[Sorry if the hidden text isn't hidden. Never used that code before. =^_^=]

In the WHM quest line in ARR, it is revealed that the Elementals are the trees themselves. When they feel threatened, they summon creatures to defend themselves. It is the job of a Pajal to slay these creatures and soothe the tree. Otherwise the trees just call forth more and more creatures that actually start attacking the tree itself.

[Spoiler End]

So it is kind of easy to see how the Garleans could force their way into the Shroud and also how people could live without catering to their every whim. Centuries of tradition is hard to break though.

[PiedPiper]

For students of philosophy, you'll notice that the Empire, particularly the explanations in Praet, are very Nietzschean.

They seek to pernamently wrest control of the land from the hands of whimsical "gods"--gods which we have been shown are little more than primals for the player races. Ultimately they advocate control over their own destiny through strength of group and country.

If anything their struggle against the elementals makes me like them more. They are fundamentally no stronger than us, yet they refuse to bow before powers which we treat as unquestionable. They don't need the blessing of unseen gods to validate their lives, they don't recognize the authority of those gods--once god is dead, his frightful shadow will be yet present in caves throughout the world.

In terms of a philosophical basis, I think they're the good guys. We only fight them cus we happend to be in Eorzea. What does Eorzea really believe in? Freedom, self determination, equality, respect of soverignty? Pah. Just ask the kobolds how much eorzean peoples respect soverignty. Ask the refugees how much equality is valued.

Era after era, catastrophic devastation has been brought to the lands at the hands of the gods and primals for one reason or another. The Empire simply seeks to end it pernamently. What's Eorzea's plan to solve the problem? Keep sending bands of hapless soldiers and adventurers to get slaughtered by endlessly re-summoned primals (as we learn is SPOILER the motivation of the 'bad guy' in smn quest). How many low ranking GC troops have been slaughtered by ifrit number 900? Not to mention the whole, quiet execution of those who have been branded thing. The Empire, at least, is willing to fight for an ultimate resolution. So they gain resources by conquering other groups--do not the high houses of Ul'dah or the priate bands of Limsa do the same on a smaller and less successful scale?

[shinros]

Oh yeah when I first found out tempered people are executed I was like what? daam. Oh on limsa breaking the peace treaty with the kobolds I was really angry, Y'sholta was right in that situation and what was worse I picked them as my GC. I simply said this is the reason why they can't solve the primal situation they all of talk of peace equality and all that jack and fail to live up to it.

Personally I felt sorry for raubahn he is trying very hard but the people are not changing and the very guards are corrupt too.

Now I am not saying the garleans are cool/good too just saying everyone here is grey.

[Renvalt]

Thing with Ul'Dah, it's kinda like how America is atm - you have the 1% who doesn't give a damn about everyone else, and there's a few in the wealthy who actually DO care, but are unable to really do shit about it.

Nanamo has her hands tied with the Syndicate (a faction that has the bidding of the Brass Blades and Alacran at their whim) telling her to just sit still and be a useless little bitch. Raubahn's only one voice on the Syndicate, and they're not likely to listen to him - especially since he's far more loyal to the Sultana than to them (did I forget to mention he's formerly Ala Mhigan?).

At this point, Ul'Dah would have to go into civil war to resolve an issue like that - which sends the Amal'jaa a plain signal that "Hey, Ul'Dah's in deep shit, let's go cause havoc".

In the case of Limsa and the Kobolds, both sides knew neither would hold their end of the bargain for long - the whole treaty was no better than a cease fire at best.

Gridania and the Sylphs are getting along only because Frixio and co. haven't been tempered yet - and we haven't been stupid enough to pierce deep into their homeland. Ramuh's unlike Ifrit and Garuda, in that he's not gonna stick a fork in us if we leave him and his Sylph friends alone.

In the case of Garlemald, Gaius knew he had to work with what he had available, given that Emperor Solus was on his deathbed (though one wonders why Gaius didn't rush to his side, since the Emperor gave up Eorzea after the whole Carteneau mess).

[Naria]

I also have to argue against appeasing the Elementals as the only way to live in the Black Shroud. The Moon Keeper families of miqo'tes have been living in the forest and been at odds with Gridania for years.

The Ixal, who have been regected by the elementals also live in the shroud. My opinion is not that being at odds with the elementals does not make living in the shroud impossible, but that living at odds with the elementals would make a city of the size of Gridania impossible, with erozea's current capabilities.

Having said that though, the stories of the forest being an angry aggressor who doesn't tolerate insolence lightly is mostly either Gridanian propaganda or grossly exaggerated - even the Garleans were able to storm Moonspore Grove and slaughter the sylphs with little effort, and, by the time of ARR, erect a stronghold right on Gridania's doorstep.

Again I might be missing something but I've never really gotten the impression that the elementals care about the sentients living in the forest, as they care more about them not messing with the forest. So I don't really see the elementals ever expending much of an effort defending any group living in the Shroud (bedsides the occasional warning, perhaps from individual elementals) so much as the Shroud itself. If I recall correctly there was a quest in 1.0's GC where the elementals did actually attack some of the Garleans (the one where you had to fight the Magitek). I'd say that the Garleans have learned from their experiences in 1.0. I wonder how many resources it takes to keep the casturm in the Shroud functional, though.

[SPOILER] As for the elementals being the trees themselves I'm going to have to disagree with you. Rather I think that particular elemental lives in that tree. In the 1.0 WHM/CNJ/Gridania quest lines the elementals are shown to be sort of environmental sprites that can live in natural objects, although I suppose that could have been retconned [/SPOILER]

Although I suppose we're getting off topic. Just because the Garleans are capable of logic, and that the city states aren't perfect doesn't necessarily mean that they are the "good guys". The information we get in the storyline is fairly limited right now, but I suppose only time will tell.

[shinros]

I don't want to spoil White Mage quest line here so read at your own risk.
[Sorry if the hidden text isn't hidden. Never used that code before. =^_^=]

In the WHM quest line in ARR, it is revealed that the Elementals are the trees themselves. When they feel threatened, they summon creatures to defend themselves. It is the job of a Pajal to slay these creatures and soothe the tree. Otherwise the trees just call forth more and more creatures that actually start attacking the tree itself.

[Spoiler End]

So it is kind of easy to see how the Garleans could force their way into the Shroud and also how people could live without catering to their every whim. Centuries of tradition is hard to break though.

*Reads spoiler* Bloody hell I simply don't like the country even more now.