Couple BLM questions!

[ChickensEvil]

Each thunder lasts longer than what you have posted.

Hrmmm so it does... why do all the online resources have the wrong duration timers then? gah! Well that messes everything up...

I think I found a more accurate resource will rewrite my other post...

Edit again: I actually managed to find a nice breakdown of MP costs which should help in determining how much mana you eat up thus how much fire you can actually cast



Based on this, when you hit Astral Fire 3 (which you should always be at before casting Fire) it will cost you 638 mana. This means based on just my own personal mana pool (and I do not have anywhere near the best gear... but it is getting there) I can cast at the most 5 Fire spells 3670 total Mana - 638 * 5 = 480 -> blizzard 3 @ 79 MP = 401 -> Thunder 2 @ 319 (if you are using thunder 1 it costs even less mana so I have more than enough overhead).

So, lets try this again... Thunder @ 18s
Fire 3 (1.75) - Fire (1.5 - I still don't know how I get a short cast fire here... but I don't complain) - Fire (2.5) - Fire (2.5) - Fire (2.5) - Fire (2.5) - Blizzard 3 (1.75) - Thunder (2.5) = 17.5
So IF you get absolutely 0 procs you would be refreshing thunder a little early, clipping one dot tick. At 1 Proc you would have your DoT dropped off for 1 second, at 2 Procs the DoT would have been off for 2.5 seconds. At that point you have reached argumentatively a point where it is no longer profitable to hit Thunder 1. If you have a larger mana pool (Keeping in mind I am not full darklight yet, nor do I have my relic) and you get 1 extra Fire spell in there, then you are already hitting that breaking point of Thunder 1 with 0 procs.

Keeping in mind a chance of 40% to proc firestarter, after 5 fires your chances of not getting at least 1 proc is very small. I am just not seeing the benefit here, when all you are "sacrificing" for thunder 2 is .5 seconds... You get a higher initial hit (an increase of 20 potency), and you get just enough duration to make up for it. I think this is where I can buy the argument against using Thunder 3 at the moment, since we just don't have a large enough mana pool... yet. When we get enough mana, it will likely be better to use Thunder 3.

Edit 2: And if we start trying to sort out working in a Flare (I might try to napkin math this out to sort out if you should do this single target or not... although double flare would be worth it, I am not totally sold on single flare for single target) you are looking at a 4 second cast time. So at the end of my chain, you would be doing 5 fires, then a Flare, then a transpose (this is feels like around 1 second loss, anyone got a better number here?), then a Blizzard 3 (or maybe blizzard 1?) at full cast time (3.5), and then a thunder (2.5)... you have lost Thunder a LONG time ago (0 procs you are looking at a minimum of 23.75 seconds by this point you are risking a loss even on Thunder 2)

[Shisou]

The only way Thunder 1 might be good is is you get 0 firestarter/thunder procs... so you burn through all your mana and still have your DoT on the target... but that is very rare.

^This situation is why it's there, yeah. I prefer a bit of DoT downtime at the end of Thunder to having wasted time in between GCD's in my rotation. It normally never happens, but I include it on the off-chance. Ymmv, of course. Thunder II syncs up perfectly so that I finish casting it in my UI cycle right as it's falling off.

[ChickensEvil]

^This situation is why it's there, yeah. I prefer a bit of DoT downtime at the end of Thunder to having wasted time in between GCD's in my rotation. It normally never happens, but I include it on the off-chance. Ymmv, of course. Thunder II syncs up perfectly so that I finish casting it in my UI cycle right as it's falling off.

My personal experience has also placed it where Thunder 2 seems to be wearing off just as I am casting it in a worst case scenario on procs, in a best case I lost the DoT because I get like 2 firestarter procs.

[ChickensEvil]

So, double flare is definitely amazing! I don't know why I didn't think to really try this before, but was using all last night and really enjoying myself. Whether you are trying to burn a group of adds or burn the boss, or both... it really does the job well. But be warned it really does make things very angry with you, so you need to make sure the tank has a good threat lead before hitting it.

I would still like to see a comparison of doing flare at the end of a fire cycle, verses going straight to blizzard 3.
so Fire until < 1038 - Flare - transpose - blizzard 3 - thunder 2 - etc
vs Fire until < 1038 - Blizzard 3 - thunder 2.

Why I ask, is because at first glance this seems really good, but the problem with it is 2 fold. When you hit Flare you have 0 Mana left, so after hitting transpose you must wait for one tick regeneration which sets you back by about 1 GCD. The second problem being that you are now full length casting Blizzard 3, so eating 3 seconds instead of 1.7. So the question is, does the damage of flare make up for and exceed the added time spent out of AF3.

[Shisou]

(snip)Fire (1.5 - I still don't know how I get a short cast fire here... but I don't complain)(snip)

Perchance from the short delay between when Fire III finishes casting and when it applies AF3? It occurs because AF3 gets applied by the damage instead of the cast finishing, which happens at the end of the spell animation. By that point you're already casting Fire, so it still registers as being under UI3.

[ChickensEvil]

Perchance from the short delay between when Fire III finishes casting and when it applies AF3? It occurs because AF3 gets applied by the damage instead of the cast finishing, which happens at the end of the spell animation. By that point you're already casting Fire, so it still registers as being under UI3.

I am willing to bet that is what it is, which I am not complaining about one bit. The only time that bits you in the ass is if for WHATEVER reason, you have to go straight from say Blizzard 3 to Fire 3, you need to make sure to wait until you have actually picked up the UI3 Buff BEFORE casting Fire 3.

But I wasn't 100% on why it was happening, and was at the very least trying to account for it in the timers, although I am not sure 1.5 is correct, that is what it seems like it might be, since I fire off the ability at around 1.25 (or less with some spell speed) and have to wait just a hair for the GCD on the abilities to come back, so it is a guess that the time is 1.5.

[Crabsy]

Awesome stuff I'm reading here! Back to a more general question. Would it be a bad idea to macro Raging Strikes to Fire I? Just to make sure that I am always using it and its up each cooldown?

[ChickensEvil]

There are two situations where that might be bad

Beginning of the fight: depending on your tank and how much better your gear is compared to them (or if they are just a bad tank at generating threat... happens sometimes) hitting your CD on your first Fire cycle might be too much damage too soon.

During very specific burn phases where you need as much DPS you can squeeze out. For example, Titan during the heart phase, Ifrit during the spikes, Garuda is just an all around burn this, burn that... so 2 of 3 primals have distinct burn phases. You pulling out 5 more dps because you always hit it on CD, verses causing a wipe because you didn't have that extra 20% damage during the burn phase... I would take the not wiping part

Otherwise, I wouldn't think it would be bad. I just have it easily within reach so I don't have a delay, rather than macro it together.

[HoroBoro]

I never use raging strikes unless tank I'm safely in yellow or tank really knows what he's doing.

It's called "Raging Strikes" for a reason.

I.E. It makes tanks rage when you take aggro from them. Or it makes healers rage because they actually have to heal you. Or it makes other DPS rage because now they're doing < 1/2 the damage your doing...

Eventually, it makes you rage because your PUG is depressed that they're not better then you, and quit the dungeon without saying anything.