FFXIV: ARR becoming TORtanic

[Menubrea]

Snip

First of all, this game was designed with already existing max level characters in mind. So there's that.

Also it's not competing with games in the past where they had no content updates, it's competing with other games in their current state. ARR being a 'new' game is irrelevant.

[ErikMynhier]

Seriously, with the way things are progressing, it won't be long until this game follows the footsteps of SWTOR: .......

....... I hope Square Enix remembers that first impressions last and hope they won't regret that these game deficiencies won't be solved too little too late like SWTOR did.

[ilikeorangejuice]

How are people already bored with this game?

If the game is based on the community.. I'd like to know the community will be stable enough for me to keep playing the game. Therefore if the game is bad/boring and shuns many away.. then those months of 'future' investment are doubled if not quadrupled. Time is money mang, and I have stuff to do outside of gaming (shocking i know).

In my opinion though and I dare say there would be a fairly large consensus over this; Is that subscriptions just aren't worth it for any modern gamer these days since theres so many games that do it better, or are actually innovative and fresh.. Hell I can even see elder scrolls online & everquest next failing simply because their not established subscription based games.

Developers need to understand that you have to go far beyond the known standards to justify a long-term commitment such as a subscription. Blizzard understands this with their "project titan" which was scrapped and redone from the ground up with a b2p/f2p model in mind.


*to answer your question though.. its the combat man.. if you can't backseat game without yawning then its too slow and not entertaining/stimulating. Oh yeah DODGE THE RED CIRCLE OR CONE!

[Anderian]

The lack of content, yes, is there. For now. FOR NOW!

The game has a severe lack of content on all areas of the game, and the whole "you can't compare it to older games" argument has never worked to begin with. Of course you can compare to them, they are the competion. They are the games that players will leave this game for, if nothing is done. And guess what? We are paying for the game now. NOW! :P

[sasakusaku]

CM/Prae give zero loot and only tomes of philo; it's a boring philo farm raids that are about as exciting as watching paint peel.

AK is fun the first 10 times but after that we are expected to run it 1000+ times for 2 months until 2.1. Yuck...

Primal fights: once you get weapon and or relic bit there is absolutely no reason to go back. Besides, they are over in less than 10 mins. You can't call that deep content, sorry!

Coil: only a small portion of players will see that place and even less that will have success. Need a leet crew of well geared/played people to have any chance.

Leveling alts: no thanks, I am not an alt person + there is no point competing with RMT abusers/botters anyways when it comes to crafting besides, have you seen the costs for end game items? Only people who can afford that * is gil buyers. Pretty much I find a class I like and stick with it for a long time. SWToR tried that ploy of making a game where you fill in your time with alts...well, I lasted three months of that before I hit "cancel" and only reason I lasted that long is because it had PvP at launch; ff 14 has none at all until they implement a 4v4 WoW arena next patch (lame). Oh how history repeats it self?

Lesser dungeons: did them all. None of them are worth running after you done them a few times so all there is left is AK. Yay?

Rest the 'content' is not worth mentioning since they are not rewarding nor fun.

So here I wait for 2.1 and pray it brings in content that should have been in at launch...first impressions are lasting impressions. Patches only every 3 months is not going to go down well, let me tell you.

edit. also comparing this to content from a 8+ year old games launch is flawed. You should not just meet that bar, it should be EXCEEDED since most modern MMOs usually offer more than this these days. Rift, SWToR, TSW, GW2, ect all offered more end game content at launch so I really don't get why people bring up that excuse...

[Fyrebrand]

it won't be long until this game follows the footsteps of SWTOR:
- No PvP upon launch (even SWTOR had PvP on Launch)

What? SWTOR had PvP at launch, therefore a game without PvP at launch is following in its footsteps?

Must be the oversized font, it seems to be affecting your ability to communicate...

[Roaminggnome]

Yes why don't they have 10 years worth of content off the bat? For one if this was 100% based off of players being at max level we would have just started at max level.

First of all, this game was designed with already existing max level characters in mind. So there's that.

Also it's not competing with games in the past where they had no content updates, it's competing with other games in their current state. ARR being a 'new' game is irrelevant.

[Meliae]

Seriously, with the way things are progressing, it won't be long until this game follows the footsteps of SWTOR:

- No PvP upon launch (even SWTOR had PvP on Launch)

- Little Post-Game Stuff to do (AK,CP Runs, Long Duty Finder Queue, Tomes Farming)
Very boring and repetitive stuff.

- Little incentive to do a max level alt class, leveling them is entirely dependent
Upon mindless Fates grinding and minuscule leve quests, seriously why shouldn't
former low lvl quests reset for a low level alt?

- Crafting is very boring and inconsequential and a majority of players have no interest
In wasting their time crafting wherein they could be doing other more fun stuff

- Worthless monster drops that give nothing but stupid crafting materials

- Very hard to accumulate Gil in this game because monster loot sucks.

- Ridiculous teleportation and repair fees

- No server transfers upon launch

- Terrible Instance Dungeon queues in Duty Finder

- No vanity/fashion items upon launch

I hope Square Enix remembers that first impressions last and hope they won't regret that these game deficiencies won't be solved too little too late like SWTOR did.

seriously? you sound to me like just a troll who wants to get some post ranks by posting this stuff, lets breakdown stuff shall we ?

- no pvp ? well yea cos this is a PvE game not a PvP game

- little post lvling stuff to do ? who told you to ride the fate band wagon for max lvl? did you finish the story line? did you watch all the CS do you know what the story was telling you ? did you even bother with quests ? the content is there you just ignored it.

-little intiative to do alt max level right now then tell me this, was there any other MMO who used the idea of multiple classes on same character before FFXI ? or the idea of sub jobs and main jobs requirement to unlock something else ? better yet allowing you to lvl everything on one character ? just like the FFXI you can do that in this game, no you Runes of Magic and stuff dont count cos they came after the only thing that I can say was before FFXI with that concept was UO but that is Old school I bet you never even heard of that game before.

-Crafting now if you were to take crafting out of most MMO then there is no point in making a MMO player driven economey since thats what makes a MMORPG what they are.

-worthless drops they are only worthless if you think they are worth less, let me ask you this do you know what Vortex headdress are? what about inferno tapers? no? I guess not, I know you are gonna reply to my post after using google cos you dont know what they are.

-hard to make money really? I wouldnt know cos everytime I login I am broke but then again I get about 100-200k spend that and then go broke again... I wonder how I am making all that money ? oh yea, those worthless monster drops that you sell to NPC I just sell those to other players...

-no server transfer you know why its not there right? its because the people like you who didnt want to use the server transfer option when it was there before the launch but cant wait to complain about it, dont worry they got it covered its coming in next patch, since free trial peopl should be out of game by then.

-duty finder I admit they have some hicups with it with all the overloading of it and all, let me ask you what other game has resolved issues of crashing and stuff with in a week? heck how many games have had it at launch? most games you know stole the idea from one and another, dont just say that its not a issue with the games that are already out way before this game because you would be lying.

-no vanity right about that... did you know there is a event going on right now ? so whats there to stop you from using that gear in dungeon run? nothing because I have done it in Preaterium, even in Castrum Meridum as well, I did it with my FC member when 2 of us did Preaterium run just for the fun of it, we ran the whole run in swiming suits, then next day we were going to do Castrum run as FC, btw it wasnt planned on FC run but it turned out like that, same me and the other guy we changed right at the start of the run, by the time we turned off the first alert, the whole group was running in swimsuits, even the tank all they had was their weapon and shield... so dont go around saying the gear isnt there, its there but it takes the normal equipment slot, use it like that till this next patch comes....


oh and as for impersion they already know, they have known about it for about 2 years, because of failed rush launch of orignal game, where the original producer refused to listen to player base and went ahead with launch anyways, because of which SE lost alot of money and two years worth of revenue, if he had listened to player base at that time and delayed the game for few more months SE would have been rolling in money, orignal game was intersting and good but I like more of the functions in this game, for someone who has played the both orignal and relaunch I can say SE has pulled Rabbit out of the hat, sure its not the colour rabbit they wanted but its a rabbit none the less...

so let the comment about being a white knight come, because I know I will be here being patient with this as I have been for 2 years, I am not going anywhere I am quite curious as to what SE is gonna throw my way...

*sorry for any Spelling mistakes*

[Chrysania]

So you have the US version of it, not the Japanese version. You know the US version was nerfed heavily because they didn't think the American's could handle the original difficulty. Once again, you failed at comprehension. Your FF2 cartridge is NOT the original hard version of the game. I'm talking about the actual hard version of FFIV.

It seems to be you that fail at comprehension as you seem to be laboring under this unfortunate delusion that you have anything even remotely resembling...a point. Your initial premise is wrong; I've been playing FF games for about as long as they've existed to play. My statements based upon that fact are contrastive between their content and experiences (qualitative/anecdotal), whereas you are simply attempting (with great ineptitude and nothing that's ever stood near a point, let alone possessed one) to...what? Prove my opinion wrong? Because you dreamed up this notion that I've...never played Final Fantasy games?

No, I didn't grow up in Japan or have magical access to imported games at roughly the age of...what wozzit...12? 12ish?

But here. You keep belaboring a non-point and have confused your own total lack of comprehension for mine, so I can only presume words are too much for you to process.

Baka.

[Chrysania]

I'm pretty sure charming would not be one of the words I’d ever use to describe you.

And your topical expertise would be leading the way, I'm sure.

Sigh, the example was to show the difference between similar activities in a single player game vs MMO, and it is my assertion that even for theme park MMOs like ARR the social component is a very integral part of the experience.

The social component would be very integral to retention, yes. How do you generate retention? What core component of the matter must, itself, have either the active quality of being enjoyable to some quantifiable majority of your target market, or is at least not alienating thereof?

The answer: the gameplay.

Unless you’re just a terrible person who can’t make any friends.

Once again, you have to first be attracted to a game and likely find some sort of enjoyment playing that game before you're going to be in that game long enough to get to the part where social integration becomes relevant. This is, for what I'd wager would be the vast majority, true.

Most people are not in multi-game clans/guilds. Most people are not migrating between games with friends. What are most people doing?

Trying games out uuuuusually by themselves. Its them vs the game. Battle 1: FIGHT

Does the game suck to install? Endless fiddly problems connecting/maintaining a connection to the servers? Does it crash every time you're making a character? If yes, them's some problems. If no...moving along.

Ok, you're logged in. What now? Its still You vs The Game. Can you reasonably figure out how to perform basic functions with minimal difficulty? ARR's got a perfectly good tutorial system in place, and it needs it. Moving along.

You've run around for an hour or so, mostly just getting your bearings. Now you've got a class and you're rip-roaring to go try it out.

You find your way outside. Whee, lets beat on the squirrel; you need three of those anyway!

Still You vs The Game. Is it fun so far? In ARR, I daresay they did quite well with the super-important 'First two hours' experience. Well done SE, you nailed this important step pretty ok.

But...then its a few days later. Mirroring my experience, you've stuck your foot out into socializing, asking people lots of questions, chiming in on random zone banter, generaly being sociable. You know you're in an MMO and you're going to need to get a guild eventually, but you don't have to worry about that straight out the gates in most games. You should have plenty of time to run around before you need to worry about finding the FC that's right for you.

NOPE! Oho, how wrong you are. Level 15 stage in that main story you were starting to get really into, are you? PAUSE. Nope, no more game for you, go find people to do this dungeon with. And then this dungeon. And juuuuuuust because ...another dungeon.

Now, maybe you're ok with that, and if you are that's nice. I'm not. I think that's bad game design and forces people to go guild hunting (or rely on the duty finder, which SE should not be encouraging anyone playing a DPS class to do for how badly that reflects on them, whether its fair or not that it does so) FAR sooner than I think is even remotely wise.

Such content often starts appearing in other games around that level of power, sure; you're not forced to stop everything and be prohibited from continuing until you do it in the direct competitors' games. Why does SWTOR encourage you and warmly invite you to do Esseles/Black Talon at level 10, but not lock you out of ever moving on with yourself until you do?

Why does WoW practically handhold you to Dead Mines/Ragefire Chasm at about levels 15-18, but not stonewall you from running right along with your bad self if you'd prefer?

ARR didn't read the fine print there, perhaps. You let people make friends and jump into the social pool...on their own time. Better yet, you cheerfully draw attention to social tools throughout the first 1/3 of the leveling experience, force none, but remind. Make sure they know they're there and that a tutorial for using them, if required, is just a click away.

SE did the tutorials right, which makes it all the more hilarious that they interrupted their game selling itself to new players so quickly to ...force them to not just do a social dungeon, but THREE IN A ROW!

HAH! No, you don't have to be a terrible person that can't make friends to quite easily find ARR's model both frustrating and, dare it be said, alienating. You could easily be a 'normal person', whatever that really is, that just doesn't appreciate the disruption.

Of course not, though it does strike me that you seem to think your opinions are facts.

My opinions are the facts by which I'll sub or never bother. My opinions are the facts by which most of my friends and guildmates from elsewhere will decide whether or not to even look at ARR for much. They like to get me to be the canary trying these new games out. If I come back choking and fuming and breathing 120 fiery words per minute, they know better than to bother.

So no, not objective universal-trufax capital 'F' Facts, but for all intents and purposes, they're the chief facts relevant to my decision-making processes.

This is, as an amusing aside, true for us all. SE doesn't have 'The Playerbase' to actually concern itself with. They have a whole lot of individual opinions to sway, appeal to and...oh, right, IMPRESS.

Because why? They need us. We don't need them. And that, monsieur, IS a fact.

Respect? From you? Why, never! At this point I wouldn’t even expect you to display a shred of common courtesy.

Mein herr, I've been alarmingly charming and curiously courteous. Wry with a light spreading of snark whilst remaining germane to the points presented and topic at hand? This isn't even an argument. We're one pot of tea away from it being a rousing discussion, and not a thing more.

Naw, I'll readily cede the mastery of the English language to you, it is after all not my first language, but even then I have to say you rely on sophistry a bit too much. The sad part? You still haven’t responded to my original point, which is that you basically labeled every Eve player a sociopath. Not a very classy move there Chrysania.

I DID respond to your initial point; it was hyperbole. Literary exaggeration not meant to be taken literally, but rather as a representative context figure.

And for the love of air, man, we're on an internet forum. Seminal treatise on Very Important Things, this is not.

If things remains as they are, I agree. 2.1 is a rather important update they need to get right.

To that point, we're entirely agreed. You might dislike my armchair fancy for using single player games as any sort of contrast to MMO's (And why shouldn't I? Why should I be 'fair' and give MMO's a special retard room in which they don't have to impress by the same or even similar standards as everything else that wants my money? Why do MMO's allegedly deserve 'special considerations' that are tantamount unto special permissions to be shoddy, awful games nobody in their right mind would play EXCEPT with friends to deaden the pain of the visceral experience?) buuuuut...

I apparently have intellectual courtesy sufficient to still want to know what you think they should change and what you think they got right.

I’m actually defending nothing here, I enjoy ARR for what it is, but I also see its flaws just fine. If you had stopped for a second and read through what I wrote initially before launching into your tirades, you probably would’ve noticed that all I commented on was the criteria you used to judge MMOs and your thoughts on MMO gaming.

MMO's are very often afforded special considerations no other game or entertainment platform would be given if they begged for them. Why is that?

Why do we tolerate in MMO's what we'd burn buildings down over in our...oh...cable television experience? Gosh darn cable television subscribers, they just want everything on a silver platter. They don't want to work for their HBO and their cinemax; they're lazy is what they are. They just want to pay their sub and have it ladled into their laps.

...Except that is, in fact, how it absolutely is with cable television. That is exactly how it is with internet service. Nobody has to farm tokens in addition to their subscription fees in order to purchase things via Amazon Prime.

Yet, MMO's enjoy a special status for no good reason at all. None, at least, I can even begin to identify.

Nothing in the world except an MMO could ask of us the things they ask and outright flagrantly expect and hope for much better than to be laughed off the floor. So, why do we give MMO's that sort of special pedestal?

Why is it not only reasonable, but angrily defensible, for an MMO to be a poor game riddled with glaring oversights a five year old, if queried, could have espied as probably being important?

Its a real puzzle to me, and I don't know that many people even think of it in that frame. So you might say I'm spreading the question.

Because its distinctly abnormal in the service industry. Even if you compare it to subscribing to a sports club and still needing to 'work' to play the sport (which isn't work to those that enjoy the sport), we're pretty much never offered an MMO that specializes at all.

If they were sports fields, they try to mangle at least three entirely incompatible different pursuits into one cramped area. Welcome to EveryGame, where you can do EVERYTHING...poorly. Guaranteed to be mediocre in every way possible! Don't worry, we will neglect your favorite experience soon NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE! We've probably neglected it recently and will neglect it again very soon. Watch the patch notes!

ARR is making the same mistake as every attempt at conforming to WoW's long shadow before it, in that. I suspect they think they're playing it safe, being conservative, going with a 'tried and true', not rocking any boats. I suspect they think 1.0 bombed more because 'it was too different from WoW' than because the game was simply awful. I can only surmise that the relative handfuls that stuck with it were able to do so because of the social aspect, yet likely despite the game, not because of it.

And like many attempted WoW/Everquest clones before it, ARR doesn't know who its trying to impress, and I'm not at all convinced that YoshiP will pick a market and focus on serving it well. 'Everyone' is not a market you can target effectively or with anything resembling hope for success unless your product is 'Air' and you're giving it away for free.

But apparently to you that’s akin to running over your pet puppy repeatedly and pissing on its dead body while singing praise to ARR.

Wut?

The time and money, were not, 1.0 made certain of that.

'We only have limited time and resources. What shall we do? BE MORE LIKE WOW!' - a recipe for disastercake.

What baffles the unending crap out of me isn't why they do that, but why they continue to do that when pretty much nobody's done WELL with that.

The outright astounding is that companies like Bioware and Square-Enix; legendary companies that have the resources and the means to DEFINE A GENRE...tuck their tails between their legs, hide in Blizzard's shadow and aspire to mediocrity.

Final Fantasy MMO's won't even significantly copy Final Fantasy games for much. Bioware abandons everything from its amazing 'Doing Amazing Things In Space' games in favor of making Burning Crusade With Lightsabers (minus everything good about Burning Crusade), and I keep trying to figure out why.

ALL ARR needs to be to quite probably do splendidly is a pretty good Final Fantasy game people can keep playing. That's it. We already typically know and, more often than not (if we're here, I presume it to be so) love. Many people didn't come to Final Fantasy MMO camp going 'Wut I don't even' but rather 'I WANT TO LOVE YOUR THING PLEASE GIVE ME SOMETHING TO LOVE'

Its a testament to how much people want a Final Fantasy MMO to love that 1.0 faceplanted like it did and people are back to give ARR a real, genuine chance.

So...here. Have this deficient likeness of all the other games you're bored of/dissatisfied with. We put a moogle sticker on it and it plays pretty music!

I guess this is where we make quotes in foreign languages to look more intelligent?

Here's mine to you: 兼聽則明，偏信則暗

I did listen to both sides. I was enlightened. Unfortunately, it only served to reinforce my initial suspicions and cement them into certainty; I'm really sick of milk tea.

All else is Internet Forum Banter.