Couple BLM questions!

[Rbstr]

Mana cost on TIII doesn't even matter if you're putting it after BIII in your mana phase. It'll all regen by the time you get your next FIII off.

[Foullacy]

Mana cost on TIII doesn't even matter if you're putting it after BIII in your mana phase. It'll all regen by the time you get your next FIII off.

Has nothing to do with the mana cost, it has everything to do with the time you spend casting Thunder III and how many Fire cast it cost you in a boss fight. Thunder I > II and III. Period. Thunder III at the start as the tank is pulling, and during TStorm, that's it.

[Macho]

Has nothing to do with the mana cost, it has everything to do with the time you spend casting Thunder III and how many Fire cast it cost you in a boss fight. Thunder I > II and III. Period. Thunder III at the start as the tank is pulling, and during TStorm, that's it.

I'm in agreement with Foullacy, it all comes down to time management while keeping your dps up. If you spend all your time in a casting animation you'll realize the same thing my fellow FC mate did when we had this debate at day 1 of this game. He didn't change his mind till we partied up and he realized while he was in a casting animation I was continually casting. Thunder III has it's time, mainly when you proc...as long as you always think about an effective use of your time you'll be ok.

[Risbyn]

Has nothing to do with the mana cost, it has everything to do with the time you spend casting Thunder III and how many Fire cast it cost you in a boss fight. Thunder I > II and III. Period. Thunder III at the start as the tank is pulling, and during TStorm, that's it.

Not sure I'm understanding this. How does Thunder I save time? I'm honestly curious that I could be doing something wrong here.

My typical standard rotation is this ->
Thunder III at start
Fire III for Astral Fire III
Fire x4
By this time, I'm low on mana and cannot squeeze in another Fire
Blizzard III
Thunder III to refresh if it's about to fall off or Scathe if Thunder DoT is still on target (while mana is recharging)
Fire III (Full mana bar at the end of this cast)
Fire x5

Not sure where I'd be saving Fire casts by casting Thunder I instead.

[ChickensEvil]

OK just for kicks here are the stats on each one (fixed):

Thunder:
Cast Time 2.5
Potency 30
DoT Potency 35
Duration 18s
Proc Potency 240

Thunder 2:
Cast Time 3
Potency 50
DoT Potency 35
Duration 21s
Proc Potency 295

Thunder 3:
Cast Time 3.5
Potency 60
DoT Potency 35
Duration 24s
Proc Potency 340

(Removed the rest of the information because I had wrong calculations... Will need to recalculate the numbers when I can actually get into the game... unless someone else has already done this and can show how it affects things.)

[Shadowzanon]

Each thunder lasts longer than what you have posted.

Double Flare crits make mobs angry. got the pic as i held back till tank got aggro XD.

[ChickensEvil]

Each thunder lasts longer than what you have posted.

Hrmmm so it does... why do all the online resources have the wrong duration timers then? gah! Well that messes everything up...

I think I found a more accurate resource will rewrite my other post...

Edit again: I actually managed to find a nice breakdown of MP costs which should help in determining how much mana you eat up thus how much fire you can actually cast



Based on this, when you hit Astral Fire 3 (which you should always be at before casting Fire) it will cost you 638 mana. This means based on just my own personal mana pool (and I do not have anywhere near the best gear... but it is getting there) I can cast at the most 5 Fire spells 3670 total Mana - 638 * 5 = 480 -> blizzard 3 @ 79 MP = 401 -> Thunder 2 @ 319 (if you are using thunder 1 it costs even less mana so I have more than enough overhead).

So, lets try this again... Thunder @ 18s
Fire 3 (1.75) - Fire (1.5 - I still don't know how I get a short cast fire here... but I don't complain) - Fire (2.5) - Fire (2.5) - Fire (2.5) - Fire (2.5) - Blizzard 3 (1.75) - Thunder (2.5) = 17.5
So IF you get absolutely 0 procs you would be refreshing thunder a little early, clipping one dot tick. At 1 Proc you would have your DoT dropped off for 1 second, at 2 Procs the DoT would have been off for 2.5 seconds. At that point you have reached argumentatively a point where it is no longer profitable to hit Thunder 1. If you have a larger mana pool (Keeping in mind I am not full darklight yet, nor do I have my relic) and you get 1 extra Fire spell in there, then you are already hitting that breaking point of Thunder 1 with 0 procs.

Keeping in mind a chance of 40% to proc firestarter, after 5 fires your chances of not getting at least 1 proc is very small. I am just not seeing the benefit here, when all you are "sacrificing" for thunder 2 is .5 seconds... You get a higher initial hit (an increase of 20 potency), and you get just enough duration to make up for it. I think this is where I can buy the argument against using Thunder 3 at the moment, since we just don't have a large enough mana pool... yet. When we get enough mana, it will likely be better to use Thunder 3.

Edit 2: And if we start trying to sort out working in a Flare (I might try to napkin math this out to sort out if you should do this single target or not... although double flare would be worth it, I am not totally sold on single flare for single target) you are looking at a 4 second cast time. So at the end of my chain, you would be doing 5 fires, then a Flare, then a transpose (this is feels like around 1 second loss, anyone got a better number here?), then a Blizzard 3 (or maybe blizzard 1?) at full cast time (3.5), and then a thunder (2.5)... you have lost Thunder a LONG time ago (0 procs you are looking at a minimum of 23.75 seconds by this point you are risking a loss even on Thunder 2)

[Shisou]

(snip)Fire (1.5 - I still don't know how I get a short cast fire here... but I don't complain)(snip)

Perchance from the short delay between when Fire III finishes casting and when it applies AF3? It occurs because AF3 gets applied by the damage instead of the cast finishing, which happens at the end of the spell animation. By that point you're already casting Fire, so it still registers as being under UI3.