Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[Kaalan]

No, just no.
A WAR will NEVER do equal or more DPS than an "actual DPS classes". There is a difference between having an higher DPS than a random crappy DPS and being higher than the same job played by someone who's using his skills.
Yeah, I got 170 dps as a WAR on Livia one time, while a +1 DRG got 140. Does this mean a WAR has more DPS than a DRG ? No, just that a shitload of DPS are awefull, that's all.

WAR is fine for easy content like CM yeah, but for everything challenging, PLD is a better option, you cannot deny it.
Even for AK PLD > WAR. A PLD can still "speed run" a huge portion of last floor, ever tried as a WAR ?

[Sephirah]

No, just no.
A WAR will NEVER do equal or more DPS than an "actual DPS classes".

Yeah, I got 170 dps as a WAR on Livia one time, while a +1 DRG got 140.

That...I don't....even....wut?

[Kitru]

I don't mean to lead anyone astray, I just think the "current state of warrior" isn't as bad as people think it is.

The current state of WAR is that they do not provide any substantial advantage over a PLD while bringing with them numerous substantial disadvantages. Many people interpret this as "omg, WAR is useless", which is untrue, and likely what you're referring to. It's a case of hyperbole.

WAR and PLD have equivalent damage and enmity generation, both ST and AoE; WAR with perma-Wrath V requires 8.7% more healing over time and brings ~100 hp/GCD in self healing (2k every 24 GCDs from IB; 600 over 12 GCD every 36 GCDs from Bloodbath), causing WAR to be require explicitly more external healing when incoming damage exceeds 1150 damage per GCD, which occurs in effectively all 8 man content; and WAR has an explicitly inferior CD suite from a mitigation standpoint, thanks to poor effective contributions (Self heals are factored into mean mitigation for effective performance and WAR CDs that do scale are *significantly* weaker than those of PLD).

Quantifying how bad a WAR is compared to a PLD, holistically, is somewhat difficult, but, for a rough estimate, I would say that a WAR is roughly 90% as effective as a PLD, pretty much entirely due to the additional strain on healers.

[Kitru]

There is a difference between having an higher DPS than a random crappy DPS and being higher than the same job played by someone who's using his skills.

QFT. I love the parse comparison logic where the parse of an incompetent person is compared to the parse of a competent person. It's like cherry picking your data points from a study to prove your hypothesis: anyone that knows anything will laugh your conclusions into oblivion.

[Kaalan]

That...I don't....even....wut?

Great job on quoting everything BUT the point of my message. You should work in the media if you're not already doing it, you have a great future.

[NovaLevossida]

This is starting to get depressing. I've failed Titan hard mode through DF so many times that I've lost count; I'm as geared as I can reasonably be, I can tank it (or I can DPS it while a PLD tanks it), and I can dodge all the attacks. I just keep on failing because people can't dodge attacks. That's what's really depressing about this. I can't do anything else to help the runs succeed.

The other depressing thing is that because of the stigma surrounding warrior, no one really wants one. Pre-made groups already have their one tank and are just looking for DPS. Shout groups don't have any confidence in a WAR so they don't join up. I can't even get my WAR into linkshell groups because they only run with PLDs and only want DPS to fill the slots. I can't find an established FC to join that's already doing Titan, so I'm helping a FC gear up through Garuda and whatnot, but it's very depressing being stuck on a fight for so long that I can't improve the odds of success at.

[Sephirah]

This is starting to get depressing. I've failed Titan hard mode through DF so many times that I've lost count; I'm as geared as I can reasonably be, I can tank it (or I can DPS it while a PLD tanks it), and I can dodge all the attacks. I just keep on failing because people can't dodge attacks. That's what's really depressing about this. I can't do anything else to help the runs succeed.

That's not your fault though. A tank in full Allagan gear and +1 relic (PLD or WAR) can't carry a Titan victory if the rest of the group still fails :\

And to address your "stigma" issue, I agree with this to a point, and it is unsettling. Unfortunately I can only suggest you keep looking. I personally know plenty of players who welcome warriors to their group. Some friends of mine on turn 4 farm Titan with a War DPS.

[NovaLevossida]

That's not your fault though. A tank in full Allagan gear and +1 relic (PLD or WAR) can't carry a Titan victory if the rest of the group still fails :\

True enough, but statistically, the odds of success are much higher when organized in a group outside the duty finder where people are willing to work for a common goal and stick with it until they get the clear. The absolute worst about this, apart from this being a one tank fight (which, the way the community is running it—and I can't blame them for that—a one tank setup halves the amount of tanks actually clearing the fight) and everyone already having a PLD, is that people will just flat out ignore me because I'm a WAR. It wouldn't be nearly as depressing if there were some acknowledgement there like "sorry, we already have a tank" or "sorry, we need DPS and healers." No, it's just no response, every single time.

[Sephirah]

True enough, but statistically, the odds of success are much higher when organized in a group outside the duty finder where people are willing to work for a common goal and stick with it until they get the clear. The absolute worst about this, apart from this being a one tank fight (which, the way the community is running it—and I can't blame them for that—a one tank setup halves the amount of tanks actually clearing the fight) and everyone already having a PLD, is that people will just flat out ignore me because I'm a WAR. It wouldn't be nearly as depressing if there were some acknowledgement there like "sorry, we already have a tank" or "sorry, we need DPS and healers." No, it's just no response, every single time.

If you intend to be the tank in that fight then I would suggest you be the one organizing your party. That's what I had to do.

[NovaLevossida]

If you intend to be the tank in that fight then I would suggest you be the one organizing your party. That's what I had to do.

Been trying. You wouldn't believe the "what, no PLD?" responses though.