When you look at it like this how is Warrior a worse tank?

[Derza]

Warrior tanks are better than Paladins when the incoming dps is less then around 350-400 dps and there are no huge hits. When the incoming dps is over 400 DPS paladins are better (this is purely based on Defiance + IB spam vs shield oath and does not inclued any of the paladins cooldowns). So pretty much when you include all the damage mitigation CD's that paladins have it leaves warriors only being better tanks in 4 man dungeons ( and normally only when they are over geared for it.)

EDIT: I had done some calculations to prove this but i can't seem to find that post... I'll edit it in if/when i find it. Post added!

Ok lets put it this way... You need 25% more heals than a paladin (not counting wrath stacks... that will be factored in as i go)... if you use inner beast every time its up that puts you at keeping about 7-8%+ healing from wrath stacks - that means your inner beast has to heal for 17-18% of all incoming heals to be equal to paladins 20% damage reduction. So lets take a 20 sec time period ( roughly what it takes to get back to full stacks ) say your inner beast averages 1200 heal. that means in a 20 second period you could only take about 7200( 1200 is roughly 17% of 7200) in heals to break even with what a paladin has from just the 20% reduction. So in other words if you take more than 360 dps(7200 heals needed/20 seconds) your mitigation is worse than a paladin with no CD's used... 360 dps is not very much... If you take less then 360 dps you are better off than a paladin(that uses no tanking cooldowns).

Using an IB average of 1500 inner beast heal would mean the DPS taken would need to be less then 450 dps... Remember this is not counting any of the paladins cooldowns and I think its pretty obvious the paladin ones are better than the ones warrior gets for mitigation.

So basically the threshold for when paladin surpasses warrior in tanking ability is somewhere around 300-400 incoming dps (when considering all cooldowns from both classes). So as incoming damage increases warriors get less and less viable - hints why they are being avoided for Coil content (where i believe the auto attack on bosses alone = around 450-500 dps not counting any special skills).

[mushashi]

Warrior tanks are better than Paladins when the incoming dps is less then around 350-400 dps and there are no huge hits. When the incoming dps is over 400 DPS paladins are better (this is purely based on Defiance + IB spam vs shield oath and does not inclued any of the paladins cooldowns). So pretty much when you include all the damage mitigation CD's that paladins have it leaves warriors only being better tanks in 4 man dungeons ( and normally only when they are over geared for it.)

i tryed write it before but people dont realize that.
it is just as this dude have wrote

[Ninjiitstu]

my draagon have full 70ilvl but 3 90ilvl

What does your 3 i90 on a LANCER have anything to do with WAR? Gear up your WAR then you can have a say here. Also, your DRG has 2 Mytho Accessories, which aren't even close to best in slot. Gryphonskin is better then they are. So you have 1 i90 piece.

Warrior tanks are better than Paladins when the incoming dps is less then around 350-400 dps

You are doing horrible math. You have 25% more hp with isn't anywhere in your calculation. You wont use IB every time its up, meaning the majority of the time ( around 95%, or so ), your at +15% healing. When you do use IB, you are probably popping infuriate to get back to full Wrath instantly.

No one is saying Warriors are better then PLD. We are saying that for some encounters, WAR is prefered ( Turn 4 OT ), and they WAR is not nearly as bad as people think, mostly because of people like you posting false info.

[Rios-Drakoon]

What does your 3 i90 on a LANCER have anything to do with WAR? Gear up your WAR then you can have a say here. Also, your DRG has 2 Mytho Accessories, which aren't even close to best in slot. Gryphonskin is better then they are. So you have 1 i90 piece.



You are doing horrible math. You have 25% more hp with isn't anywhere in your calculation. You wont use IB every time its up, meaning the majority of the time ( around 95%, or so ), your at +15% healing. When you do use IB, you are probably popping infuriate to get back to full Wrath instantly.

No one is saying Warriors are better then PLD. We are saying that for some encounters, WAR is prefered ( Turn 4 OT ), and they WAR is not nearly as bad as people think, mostly because of people like you posting false info.

scroll back to #99

[Derza]

You are doing horrible math. You have 25% more hp with isn't anywhere in your calculation. You wont use IB every time its up, meaning the majority of the time ( around 95%, or so ), your at +15% healing. When you do use IB, you are probably popping infuriate to get back to full Wrath instantly.

No one is saying Warriors are better then PLD. We are saying that for some encounters, WAR is prefered ( Turn 4 OT ), and they WAR is not nearly as bad as people think, mostly because of people like you posting false info.

Explain to me how 25% more HP factors in anywhere on how much healing is needed over time to keep you up? and 20% damage reduction is equal to 25% more HP and 25% more healing... So if warrior has 25% more hp and 15% more healing HE WILL ALWAYS need more healing than a paladin... the only way to close the gap is by using IB... and by using it as often as you can... If you do not use it you are behind the paladin by at least 10% for sure. (I really thought all of that was obvious so didn't feel the need to include it... My bad). Please explain how my calculations are wrong? Hey I have an idea... why don't you do some math and disprove what I put out there?

And then you go on to say "no one is saying warriors are better than PLD" When the TITLE of the thread is "When you look at it like this how is warrior a worse tank?" All i did was show the situations when warrior was better than paladin and vise versa - the issue is that when a warrior is better than a paladin it really does not matter because it only happens in easy content.

[Ninjiitstu]

So if warrior has 25% more hp and 15% more healing HE WILL ALWAYS need more healing than a paladin... the only way to close the gap is by using IB... and by using it as often as you can... If you do not use it you are behind the paladin by at least 10% for sure. Please explain how my calculations are wrong?

I didn't start the post, now did I.

Again, you can use IB and instantly pop infuriate to never lose stacks. So even if it is 10%, you get a free cure at 2.5-3k. You get added healing from Bloodthirst because of berserk, maim, storm's eye and unchained, and possibly overpower if multiple targets. You can even throw in the odd Storm's Path, if you wanted to.

Do the math again.

The only time PLD become better is Sentinel and Invuln. Which no one seems to be arguing, and everyone is stuck on Shield Oath vs Defiance calculating it wrong.

[Rios-Drakoon]

I didn't start the post, now did I.

Again, you can use IB and instantly pop infuriate to never lose stacks. So even if it is 10%, you get a free cure at 2.5-3k. You get added healing from Bloodthirst because of berserk, maim, storm's eye and unchained, and possibly overpower if multiple targets. You can even throw in the odd Storm's Path, if you wanted to.

Do the math again.

The only time PLD become better is Sentinel and Invuln. Which no one seems to be arguing, and everyone is stuck on Shield Oath vs Defiance calculating it wrong.

if you dont want scroll back, i post it again for you:

Congrats on your many World First kills... who cares?

back to Topic...

Yes you are right, Warrior can tank EVERYTHING what Paladin can tank also... with one diffrence.... MORE WORK FOR HEALER!!! and thats the f... main Point.

As Warrior you are a "burden" for your Group in Titan HM and behind that.

And you say, Turn 4 Adds, there are Warrior shiny, Warrior can Tank Adds good, but besides that, Paladin is better. so, Warrior is just, and only in this game for Tanking Adds?

[Derza]

I didn't start the post, now did I.

Again, you can use IB and instantly pop infuriate to never lose stacks. So even if it is 10%, you get a free cure at 2.5-3k. You get added healing from Bloodthirst because of berserk, maim, storm's eye and unchained, and possibly overpower if multiple targets. You can even throw in the odd Storm's Path, if you wanted to.

Do the math again.

The only time PLD become better is Sentinel and Invuln. Which no one seems to be arguing, and everyone is stuck on Shield Oath vs Defiance calculating it wrong.

No you didn't start the post but you did say "No one is saying warriors are better than PLD" and last i checked No one = No one... not "ME". (and remember my post was to the OP... I in no way/form directed it at you now did i?)

So please do some math and show me that 2.5k heal over a 60 second period (only time where this heal would be "free") makes up the difference in 10% healing. Here let me do it for you. so 10% of all heals over 60 secs has to equal 2.5k-3k - well thats easy 25k-30k damage over 60 secs TO BREAK EVEN with a pld just standing there. so that puts you at being worse then a paladin just standing there if the dps is over 416-500 dps.. (and your 2.5-3k heal is not the average, that is well above an average IB so this would be like best case senario - oh and you would only have berserk up 2 times every 3 mins for this - dropping the average down even more) So i'll do a calculation with a 2k "free", and what do you know... the number turns out to be 333 dps as the thresh hold for when warriors become worse. So now you want to compare the warriors 30 sec Bloodbath + berserk + storm's path + 20% Convalescence vs paladins 15 sec Bloodbath + Fight or Flight + rampart + 30% Convalescence + Sentinel + Bulwark + Hallowed Ground? Hmmm I think that threshold will drop a bit more - but i'll let you do the math to prove me wrong...

Could you please do the shield oath vs defiance and calculate it correctly for us? It seems everyone else in the world is incapable, please enlighten us.

[Ninjiitstu]

So now you want to compare the warriors 30 sec Bloodbath + berserk + storm's path + 20% Convalescence vs paladins 15 sec Bloodbath + rampart + 30% Convalescence + Sentinel + Bulwark + Hallowed Ground? Hmmm I think that threshold will drop a bit more - but i'll let you do the math to prove me wrong...

The bolded parts prove how rediculously biased you are. You listed a few warrior abilities, then EVERY PLD ability.

People like you are the problem with warriors. You hedge your math and your comparisons at every turn in order to make PLD look better. You don't even have a 50 PLD. I can't see your WAR gear, but pretty sure its all greens and whites at this point.

Just. Stop. Posting.

[Derza]

The bolded parts prove how rediculously biased you are. You listed a few warrior abilities, then EVERY PLD ability.

People like you are the problem with warriors. You hedge your math and your comparisons at every turn in order to make PLD look better. You don't even have a 50 PLD. I can't see your WAR gear, but pretty sure its all greens and whites at this point.

Just. Stop. Posting.

Yea sorry i left out featherfoot, Thrill of Battle and forsight... forsight is usable by both just a different cooldown... just forgot to inclued Thrill of Battle and featherfoot. But either way that does not change anything I wrote before... You are going to disprove all the math I provided just because I didn't type Thrill of Battle and featherfoot (where none of the cds were used in the calculations I gave anyway - making your arguement to disprove my math, well, you have no arguement I guess.) But then again I also forgot to add paladins block... so where does that leave you now?

You keep posting but giving no solid information or even trying to back up your opinions with some math - Maybe you should be the one that should stop posting?