WAR tanking efficiency theory

[Hachiko]

I know by now everyone is blaming the WAR that needs a fix and bashing on YoshiP for stating "people just don't know how to play WAR", but what, if is true?

Think about it, by now everyone thinks that WAR is a Main Tanking class for end game content and that also VIT should be his primary stat of attribution, because STR is useless and is not good for anything else besides an extra 1%~2% parry.

Here is the problem with this theory, and any other goofball theories (i.e. stacking dex). It completely grates against the game's design.


there is something intuitive about pretty much every character. If you look at them they will get an "enhanced STAT" trait at level 6 and 14 or something. For WAR that stat is VIT. For PLD that stat is VIT. For LNC/DRG it's STR. For PGL/MNK it's STR. Etc. Etc.

If WAR was intended to stack strength primarily or that STR would be the WAR's intended strat, this type of thing would only be confusing and serve no real purpose.

Likewise, if WAR were "intended" to stack STR, then we would be able to roll on STR based accessories in dungeons at the least. But we can't. We're relegated to only being able to roll need on the VIT based accessories.

Some STR can help a WAR once they hit a certain HP threshhold, (Ideally over 7k), but it's clearly not designed to be the first place the WAR turns.

You absolutely need over 6500 hp at the very least for titan. If you step into coil you need even more than that.

Even if you were to stack STR/Crit to make your Inner Beasts a more reliable heal, it still doesn't scale as fast as monster damage does, and if you try to make it do so by stacking DPS stats, you will be at a low enough hp pool that you will die in burst from an auto attack crit and special attack.

[Judge_Xero]

To see an example of my tanking as WAR you can see it here http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...6/blog/252659/

Great video. With your gear setup I bet you could almost solo heal yourself between teleports. Looking at the average damage you took between teleports (minus Slipstream)
1st ~ 6200 Damage taken.
2nd ~ 11000 Damage taken
3rd ~ 11000 Damage taken

If you could time it after her 1st Slipstream per phase then you could probably drop close to a 2k-3k self heal (depending on criticals). - with both the 20% damage increase and 10% slashing resistance buffs up.
1st port - Internal Release - Second Wind - Inner Beast - Infuriate - Inner Beast (Self heals for 2.5k-3.5k depending on crits)
2nd port - Internal Release - Berserk - Inner Beast - Infuriate - Inner Beast (Self Heals for 3k-4k depending on crits)
3rd port - Internal Release - Second Wind - Inner Beast - Infuriate - Inner Beast (Self heals for 2.5k-3.5k depending on crits)

Her teleport cycle is on 60 seconds, so it would be up again after her second Slipstream. You could survive on Regen with light heals, while your healers nuke or do whatever until after Aetheral Blast. Top ups can happen between ports when the healers can't nuke anyways.

[HiirNoivl]

Thanks for your kind words!

I want to try to keep up my Wrath V, so Double Inner Beast is saved for Dire Emergencies Only.

Buuuut I guess for Garuda if I was feeling confident in my party, I could do that if I was gonna be all fancy.

Is there a vid of war tanking turn 1? He does wreck.

I've never liked warrior, but for a (LONG) while in 1.0, it was the god tank. It happens. It shouldn't and it sucks, but for most of the game's life span only one tank has been viable.

I don't have a Vid of Caddie.

He hits hardest at the beginning so you need to have the healers helping you a bit. SCHs Fey Illumination, + a constant rotation of defense Cool downs as well as maintaining Wrath V keep my heals out pacing the damage.

Once he splits he doesn't hit nearly as hard.

[PiedPiper]

Garuda isn't exactly a good fight to compel people to take your build seriously. Titan HM would have to be the bare minimum, but really showing you tanking Caduceus in Turn 1 would be ideal. Titan HM has the busters which hit for a lot but are predictable and he is busy doing other things afterwards so you have breathing room to heal back up. Caduceus hits like a truck and frequently Hoodswipes for high damage so if you're build was able to sustain through that (ie. not just your healers being awesome) it would go a long way in convincing people. Remember it's not about whether WAR is capable of completing the content, it's about efficiency/safety versus bringing a second PLD.

Is there a vid of war tanking turn 1? He does wreck.

I've never liked warrior, but for a (LONG) while in 1.0, it was the god tank. It happens. It shouldn't and it sucks, but for most of the game's life span only one tank has been viable.

[Genesiser]

All vitality is dumb because all it does is allow you to have a higher hp pool, but nothing to help mitigate damage so all you do is hold hate and require much more healing. Unfortunately, all str isn't so hot either because it doesn't do a whole lot to increase the amount you heal yourself for.

The real problem though, is that they decided to design war tanks like DKs from wow, but flubbed up the self healing aspect of them. In wow, a DK has a move called death strike (similar to the warrior move) and what this move does is it heals you for 20% of the damage you have recieved for the last 5 seconds, with at least 7% of your max hit pionts. Not only does it heal you, but it also gives you a bubble that absorbs 50% of the hp that was healed. So basically it helps the healers out by recovering your hp, and and the same time it helps stabilize your incoming damage even though you don't have a shield to help block the damage.

Essentially, if they are going to copy a tank class from another game, they need to do it right. Not just rely on moves that restore hp and nothing else. It's cool that they went the route of a reactive tank, but they need to get it right not only with the move, but also (equally important) need to not lower your survivablilty by reducing your incoming heals by 15% when you do use a move that helps you tank, especially with it taking ~20 seconds to recover the stacks of wrath.

[Kaalan]

It's no secret that WAR needs a balance between survivability and offense. But even with a huge amount of gear you will still be sub par. We need a fixe.

[Shinkyo]

From a game design perspective SE should make WAR tanking class focus on other stat than VIT, at least for the sake of making it different from PLD. We're supposed to have plenty of Vit to start with and our armors raise it even more so I'm thinking points should be spent on areas we are lacking.

I understand it's not the case so yeah I'm hoping SE will fix this. But on paper, I would want WAR to be designed to focus on STR/DEX for more parry and self-healing.
PLD have innate mitigation but need to buff their HP pool, WAR have the innate HP pool and should be designed to compensate their mitigation though parry/self-heal.
Hopefully, we'll get there eventually... I'm stacking on STR/Dex/crit accessories for when that time comes ...

I love WAR, love the feeling when I take a big hit and restore it back through my own means, really didn't like tanking as a GLD (to get my WAR prerequisite) and want to be able to enjoy tanking this way.

[Judge_Xero]

Thanks for your kind words!

I want to try to keep up my Wrath V, so Double Inner Beast is saved for Dire Emergencies Only.

Buuuut I guess for Garuda if I was feeling confident in my party, I could do that if I was gonna be all fancy.

Lol, you have to play it fancy. When I get some time to play again, I want to do that on Demon Wall. Just tell the Healer, don't worry about healing, just nuke. Then go and recover all HP during the charge on the 2nd repel. I want to see if it can be taken out before the gnats pop.

[Hachiko]

Lol, you have to play it fancy. When I get some time to play again, I want to do that on Demon Wall. Just tell the Healer, don't worry about healing, just nuke. Then go and recover all HP during the charge on the 2nd repel. I want to see if it can be taken out before the gnats pop.

Pretty easy to take it out before gnats pop. But it has more to do with your HP pools and the DPS of the damage dealers.

You don't even need any heals before the second repel.

[CurlyBruce]

Lol, you have to play it fancy. When I get some time to play again, I want to do that on Demon Wall. Just tell the Healer, don't worry about healing, just nuke. Then go and recover all HP during the charge on the 2nd repel.

You shouldn't even be in Defiance for Demon Wall. You can't tank Demon Wall, he attacks random people with Murder Hole. The only time you really tank anything is the brief seconds the adds are alive for. In fact unless you get extremely unlucky and get Murder Hole'd 4-5 times in a row, Regen + Medica II is sufficient to keep everyone healed until the adds and if you kill the adds fast enough one or two Medicas will get everyone topped back off. WHM cleric stance Stone II is pretty strong and not like it's hard to switch it off should you need an emergency heal.