Do you think bard desired a nerfing soon.

[himehime]

snip

i'm not sure how 2 BRDs is more efficient than PLD+BRD or any other silence combination in your argument. 2x BRD can still miss silences on nodes/ADS, just as PLD+BRD or 2x PLD would. if you're talking about if a silencer dies, or uses a silence accidentally and you don't have a 3rd silencer... that's simply execution error, and having a 3rd class with a silence is just a luxury so that you have to worry less about a simple 20s~ silence requirement. and as you mentioned in a way, MNK can fit that silence requirement pretty well, even silencing all of the HVs solo if they wanted.

melee are more prone to instant PBAoE on turn 4 yes, but it's not exactly an unbearable amount of pressure on the healer or their mana that it'd be a point not to take melee to turn 4. if you stay at an optimal position and weave in/out during GCDs you can avoid a lot of that PBAoE damage while still maintaining top dps. then you can consider your own defensive cooldowns, ie traited second wind, bloodbath for what it's worth (lol). imo, in the end, you can see that the (small) burden of healing a MNK from the "unavoidable" pbaoes in turn 4 can be seen as a simple tradeoff for the higher dps/defensive utility that they'd bring. in my experience as a melee DPS, melee DPS will only suffer unavoidable extra dmg compared to ranged DPS in turn 4.

in regards to "needing" 2 phys/2 magical, there are many groups that cleared turn 4 with 3 phys/1 magical, and some with even 4 phys 0 magical. the difficulty of turn 1-4 does not warrant a "perfect" or "ideal" party composition, as you can see with the example of WAR as well, who are in most ways inferior to PLD but they can still progress fine. yet MNK is an able DPS with many good points and few bad points when executed properly - hardly a "useless" class.

now, tbh, if you want to see the rest of the DPS compositions be regarded as useless in comparison, you would compare them to 3x SMN 1x BRD lol.

[Tatou]

I advocate a nerf as an avid bard player. Weeds out all the people who play Bard just for the fact that he's strong. I love my bard and don't want to see him abused by the FotM trainhoppers.

[Anonydort]

I advocate a nerf as an avid bard player. Weeds out all the people who play Bard just for the fact that he's strong. I love my bard and don't want to see him abused by the FotM trainhoppers.

it'd be great if they reverted bard to a more support focused role, gave the WHM sub-specialization back and refined/added more songs

[Kitkat]

Snip

I don't see how anything you say is calling brd over powered so much as the fact that battle mechanics are what hinders other classes, not that brd does more damage or is excessively unbalanced. As I and others have said, there is no need for a nerf to brd directly so much as there is a need for the mob mechanics to be adjusted so it doesn't impact up close melee quite as much.

Mechanics that cause melee to constantly run far out of range to avoid attacks, or up-close AOE around mob that does excessively high damage is what makes other DPS look weak. It isn't because Brd does more damage than them hit for hit, because frankly they don't, it is because the brd can stay at range, still do damage, and isn't caught in a situation where they have to break doing damage.

It is far more important to look at -why- other DPS look week compared to brd rather than call brd over powered and in need of a nerf. The only thing that needs to be nerfed is some of the attacks mobs use that hinder up-close melee so much. Either that or they need to add Defensive abilities to tank classes that can extend over party members to help mitigate these attacks to a reasonable limit.

[Aries37]

Mechanics that cause melee to constantly run far out of range to avoid attacks, or up-close AOE around mob that does excessively high damage is what makes other DPS look weak. It isn't because Brd does more damage than them hit for hit, because frankly they don't, it is because the brd can stay at range, still do damage, and isn't caught in a situation where they have to break doing damage.

Actually Bard dps is only half the problem because bard utility is also way too strong. In an optimal 8 man raid you need 2 tanks 2 healers and 2 bards which leaves only 2 slots for the remaining 4 classes to fight over. The mage ballad and guaranteed silence are insanely strong abilities and make bards an auto-include in any raid that isn't completely masochistic. So unless bards take a nerf to either their dps or utility raids will continue to stack them till the cows come home to the detriment of every other dps class in the game.

[Kitkat]

Once again, arguing semantics without looking at the reason people desire it. Most 8 man raids that use 2 brds to silence do it because why? Oh that is right cause the mob uses a move that must be stopped every 15~20 seconds and silence is 30 second cool down. Other jobs can silence but are required to be in specific form or rely on the move that inflicts it to have high enough accuracy to land. Thus, wouldn't that also lay into battle mechanics forced on us because of the mob more so than the fact brd is over powered? Or is it because people don't want to take the time to pay attention to their form or insure they are at capped accuracy to land because it takes away from another utility of their job?

Some of the things you just brought up -can- be done by other jobs but people choose not to because they feel it isn't that jobs responsibility. The only thing brd can do that other jobs absolutely can't do is debuff/buff songs. Of which, when in use, drops the brds damage 20% (meaning from traits they only have a 10% increase to base damage). That was brds trade off for using songs to buff the parties mana/TP.

Brds DPS is -not- the problem when other jobs get chain ability buffs, Positional potency increases, and still can use other CD buffs to out do brds damage hit for hit. Their ability to maintain consistency is to stay on par with the fact they have no other increases other than traits. No chain ability potency increase, no positional potency increase. The only reason anyone sees brd dps as higher is because it is more consistant due to the need not to stop for positional changes because of mob attacks. That is it, end of discussion. Equally geared brd against any other equally geared drg/mnk will do less hit for hit.

Brd gets no DD limit break, no potency upgrades other than from traits which the last becomes nullified when song is up. Silence is not limited just to brd, but somehow people say this makes them overpowered. The behavior of the mobs is what hinders peoples desire to bring melee and rely more on brd for abilities other jobs can use, but are limited on use either because of player behavior or because of mob behavior.

[KupoMania]

Also i read somewhere earlier (page 7?) about how bards are apparently so op when they have all of their dps buffs up? Atm im a lvl 39 bard (not trying to defend or promote a nerf here btw) and i just wanted to say that by the time we DO get all of our buffs up, including our self buff from our damage ability, we only have time for one windbite, one bloodletter and one poisonous sting before the buffs start to drop off. Take into consideration server lag and sometimes buffs not activating on click, and u will sometimes see ure first buffs dropping off before u even get both dots on. Also every time a BRD plays a song they need to stand still for 2 seconds, as well as manage how much mp they have so stop playing at times to make sure they have enough mp for when its needed, which, u guessed it, makes them stand still for abother 2 seconds. Ive had times where i havent had time to finish getting a song up before being forced to move because of game mechanics as well.

[Maku]

I like Bard the way it is. However, I am also an avid Archer (in real life) and would like if Bard and lets say Ranger were split up. Make Bard support with two songs and take away or lessen that silly mp cost. Because they don't want to redo the Duty Finder I would even go as far as working Bard into the Healer slot by giving them healing arrows. (Oh NO you are hurt here let me shoot this arrow at you) come on that would be hilarious. It would take some work though.

Then I would love for them to bring in a Ranger job. DPS heavy like Lancer. My thoughts on what I would like the Ranger to be like would take its own thread though so I will stop here. ^^

[Gallows]

If your class is more challenging to play, well thats just good game design, no?

You have a class that is piss easy to play, outperforms other DDs in practice (or performs equally well) and brings more to the grp than they do. Not good game design.

The way that Bards are dealing damage (...) complaining about this is just asking for it to be the scapegoat of what is truly wrong with bards.

Im not saying this is all thats wrong but most people arent doing Coil just yet or trying to come up with a grp composition that will shave 1 minute off their AK speed run. Im talking about things that become blatantly obvious on your first dungeon run. People go into DF and have their positional attacks miss because the tank decided to move, or because the way the mob is facing is obscured by particle effects, or they cant land a hit at all because the mob is running and their attacks simply dont connect, or they lose dps time because they have to run out of aoe repeatedly... and they see that bards have to deal with none of it.

I dont want a numbers nerf for bards. Quite frankly a lot of the problems can be fixed by tweaks elsewhere. Some encounter changes and increasing attack range by a yard or two would help even things out for melee for example. For bards Id rather see a skill cap increase. Give them some additional mechanic to manage. Introduce an equivalent of melee positionals for example. Make it involve range instead of back/flank positioning - some attacks could be close range, some mid range, some max range. Or give them charge up attacks: you stand still, hold the button down and they charge up... the longer they charge the more damage they do. Lets say they reach 100% in 2 seconds of charging. You can also fire them on the move for 50% damage. Heck, Im not a game designer, Im sure SE could come up with something better.

[Risbyn]

looks like most people agree bard need a nerfing. Sooner is better. another choice is boost all other class DPS by 30% including tank.

The more I read your posts, the more I think you're a troll.