This is why the community/DF is so terrible.

[Viridiana]

Because not everyone has a static, FC, or LS then even though you might have a FC or LS you might now have enough people. Just because you have a FC or LS doesn't mean everyone in there is level 50 or even decent players.

Make an LS. You're allowed to have 8. Seriously, if you want to take the penultimate dungeon of the game's story <i>knowing full well that people run it for the story<i> and turn it into a speed-run farm, then you're doing everyone a favor by making a static or an LS.

[Faedden]

Stuff.

Just because you're allowed to have 8 doesnt mean everyone wants 8 or even one. Point is if you want to run a dungeon that is needed to get end game gear where the MAJORITY of people are running it for tomes and then watch cs. Then YOU make a static or an LS. I mean just think about it. The few people running it for the story only need to do it once so they've moved on. So your odds of getting a speed run group is extremely high! Get a LS, FC, or static if you want to slowly watch all the cut scenes. See how it can keep going back and forth?

Since majority of the people are speed running, make a static and then you'll do majority of the people a favor by not using df. It's a majority rule type situation since MAJORITY of the people running that dungeon are doing it for tomes be prepared for a speed run. If you get a group that isn't and you're a speed runner (talking in general) be prepared to wait for everyone to watch the CS. All this "I'm important and I want to do what I want if I want to make 7 people wait that's their fault" "If I want to rush 7 people that's their fault" is really the problem.

[ispano]

Just because you're allowed to have 8 doesnt mean everyone wants 8 or even one. Point is if you want to run a dungeon that is needed to get end game gear where the MAJORITY of people are running it for tomes and then watch cs. Then YOU make a static or an LS. I mean just think about it. The few people running it for the story only need to do it once so they've moved on. So your odds of getting a speed run group is extremely high! Get a LS, FC, or static if you want to slowly watch all the cut scenes. See how it can keep going back and forth?

Since majority of the people are speed running, make a static and then you'll do majority of the people a favor by not using df. It's a majority rule type situation since MAJORITY of the people running that dungeon are doing it for tomes be prepared for a speed run. If you get a group that isn't and you're a speed runner (talking in general) be prepared to wait for everyone to watch the CS. All this "I'm important and I want to do what I want if I want to make 7 people wait that's their fault" "If I want to rush 7 people that's their fault" is really the problem.

If you were given a yes/no option at the start, you would have a point. However, the cutscenes are there to be watched. If you don't do something to opt out, you watch them. That means SE intended for people to watch them unless they choose not to. That means it's the DEFAULT. That means if you want something different than DEFAULT, YOU make your own group. It's like role requirements on a dungeon. If you want something that differs from the default YOU make your own group. You can argue against this til you're blue in the face, but that's the precedent that's set.

[Faedden]

If you were given a yes/no option at the start, you would have a point. However, the cutscenes are there to be watched. If you don't do something to opt out, you watch them. That means SE intended for people to watch them unless they choose not to. That means it's the DEFAULT. That means if you want something different than DEFAULT, YOU make your own group. It's like role requirements on a dungeon. If you want something that differs from the default YOU make your own group.You can argue against this til you're blue in the face, but that's the precedent that's set.

Since you're dealing with a community it's the majority rule factor. All mmos create stories for people to get into. Majority of the people only read a few quests, skip most cut scenes etc. Since we're dealing with other people by being that one person or a few you're being rude and inconsiderate. I understand CS or meant to be watch but since that dungeon is MEANT to be ran multiple times how many times can you watch it? Since it's MEANT to be ran multiple times the majority rule comes in.

DF is for new players

So if you get in a group where majority of the people are doing a speed run and you decided to stay and slow everyone up how is that not being rude and inconsiderate? Same for people rushing a group with most of the people watching the cs? Doesn't matter what it's MEANT for it's how the majority of people are using it. Being the one rude self entitled person is what's ruining the community. I'm pretty sure DD wasn't meant to be used the way it is, but since the majority of people are doing that and isn't breaking ToS or anything the devs don't care. And the people killing the lambs are blisted, why? Because majority rules it's only fair.

[ispano]

Since you're dealing with a community it's the majority rule factor. All mmos create stories for people to get into. Majority of the people only read a few quests, skip most cut scenes etc. Since we're dealing with other people by being that one person or a few you're being rude and inconsiderate. I understand CS or meant to be watch but since that dungeon is MEANT to be ran multiple times how many times can you watch it? Since it's MEANT to be ran multiple times the majority rule comes in.

False, read the post above your reply.

[ispano]

So if you get in a group where majority of the people are doing a speed run and you decided to stay and slow everyone up how is that not being rude and inconsiderate? Same for people rushing a group with most of the people watching the cs? Doesn't matter what it's MEANT for it's how the majority of people are using it. Being the one rude self entitled person is what's ruining the community. I'm pretty sure DD wasn't meant to be used the way it is, but since the majority of people are doing that and isn't breaking ToS or anything the devs don't care. And the people killing the lambs are blisted, why? Because majority rules it's only fair.

Because you or even the majority don't get to decide what a DF run is. That's the flaw you can't seem to get past.

[Rivienne]

Just because you're allowed to have 8 doesnt mean everyone wants 8 or even one. Point is if you want to run a dungeon that is needed to get end game gear where the MAJORITY of people are running it for tomes and then watch cs. Then YOU make a static or an LS. I mean just think about it. The few people running it for the story only need to do it once so they've moved on. So your odds of getting a speed run group is extremely high! Get a LS, FC, or static if you want to slowly watch all the cut scenes. See how it can keep going back and forth?

It's a majority rule type situation since MAJORITY of the people running that dungeon are doing it for tomes be prepared for a speed run. If you get a group that isn't and you're a speed runner (talking in general) be prepared to wait for everyone to watch the CS. All this "I'm important and I want to do what I want if I want to make 7 people wait that's their fault" "If I want to rush 7 people that's their fault" is really the problem.

Actually no, it is not majority rule. I have mentioned this in another thread, and I will do so again, because this attitude is actually incorrect from the developers perspective and it is harmful to the community overall to keep harboring it and repeating it as it feeds back into the hostile attitude towards new and inexperienced players.

I understand not having enough players, however the developers have previously stated on more than one occasion that the DF was geared towards new players. They expect the DF to be used to guide new players through to end game, especially as a way to ease new people to MMO's into things because they won't have a group yet, maybe they aren't familiar with MMO's at all, and as such, they have introduced cut scenes for these new players into these dungeons, to make it fun for them as a stepping stone towards end-game, where they will hopefully have become comfortable enough with the experience to group up with others to make a FC to run end game with together.

I want to keep emphasizing it so people get this. Anyone who is using the DF to do speed runs, at the detriment of other players, even if only one, is violating the intended purpose of the DF, and are actually contributing to an environment that if left unchecked, will turn new players away from the game.

This is what you need to understand. The DF is for the new players. Not for doing a speed run. If you wish to do a speed run it is expected you will group up, be it with your own FC or LS, or with random people on your server who are up for it. If you do a DF and get a group willing to go for a speed run, that is perfectly wonderful. But it cannot be the expected norm, as it is undermining the very reason for the DF.