Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[Lhun]

Either way stacking DEX is still asinine. Nothing at endgame is going to give Warrior DEX at lv50 - unless you're suggesting we should go buy Darklight's Aiming set - in which case you rob yourself of either +VIT +PARRY or +STR +CRIT depending on your opinion which are more important stats. By lowering Parry you're lowering the effectiveness of the DEX you add - by sacrificing STR you're lowering the Parry mitigation - by lowering VIT you're reducing your overall HP pool. Are you going to meld a significant amount of DEX? Allot your stat points to DEX +20? This would make my STR/DEX equal at 203 each at lv50 (with weapon stats removed).
It's pointless to mess with DEX in my opinion - it does nothing to actually bolster a Warrior's eHP.

I never suggested STACKING DEX. Please look to my previous posts in this thread on page 12 and 13. Look at your AF stats to see what things you should be focusing on.

The stat Parry is more important then Dex for war. STR and VIT are the most important. If you look at endgame gear, you will see that there is distinctly several options in the WAR/PLD/MRD/GLD stuff. I suggest picking the ones that increase STR over VIT, and Parry over Blocking, for warriors This also goes for accessories. I do not recommend anything that prevents you from wearing feet and head, and I'm saying not to IGNORE dex, that's all. If there's an item that gives you dex and and equal STR to an item that gives you Vit and something else, pick dex if you've already reached my 405 point STR recommendation for 15% parry damage mitigation.

[Dhex]

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And there is no effective way to get those numbers with endgame gear so you'll need to meld or allot for DEX - which just makes it a difficult route to pursue. The real issue is WAR can only parry - it cannot block. WAR cannot raise it's Parry rate with abilities - only melds, off-type gear, or allotment. PLD gets to have their cake and eat it as it were - as a Tank it can access both forms of mitigation and actively increase the rate at which it can utilize that mitigation without sacrificing gear slots, meld slots, or allotment points.

Thus imbalance. Either way you're hard pressed as a Warrior to utilize DEX - making it a pointless stat. They should; transfer Block & Parry rate adjustments to the VIT stat - add a CD to actively increase WAR's Parry rate similar to Bulwark - and remove Parry from Paladin.

[CurlyBruce]

I don't know. That's why I much prefer real play damage testing to Dummy tests.

If you want to get an accurate baseline of your Crit with and without buffs it has to be on a dummy with a sufficient sample size. Saying you are getting a 27% or higher crit rate when you parse on different bosses, in different situations, with different circumstances or other factors involved isn't going to give you good data. I've personally tested crit rate with no % boosts and have gotten what the calculator predicted. The only issue I have with the calculator is how % boosts to crit are factored. Either way, having to rely on lucky crit procs for Inner Beast to survive in harder fights does not a tank make. Using that logic anyone can tank by relying on lucky dodge procs. The main thing WAR needs is reliability. It doesn't have to come from straight damage mitigation like PLD but it has to be as reliable as PLDs.

[Zuri]

Defiance should work like 1.xx Rampage did. Every crit heals us on a multiplier. This was what made WAR viable in 1.0, until they obsoleted paladin letting us full heal with SC. I guess that's the scare they have. But letting it stand as is, is the exact inverse of what happened to PLD in 1.0.

[Kitru]

We're talking about single target emninity here, not group total eminity. This doesn't count at all.

Yes, it does. Medica II is massive enmity gain *even against a single target*. It generates the same enmity on all targets that you're in combat with.

Math: Damage Enmity = Healing enmity x2. Or, 1 point of damage = 2 points of hp healed - IN HATE GENERATED.

Not true. Not in the least. Each heal has a different enmity modifier. Cure/Physick has an enmity modifier of .5: each point of healing generates .5 enmity. Cure II has an enmity modifier of .8. Regen has an enmity modifier of 1. Every point of healing that you get from Regen provides exactly as much enmity as it heals. This is one of the big reasons why Medica II is so friggin' nasty: a bulk of its healing is from Regen.

SE provides us a tool for this. Provoke brings hate to +1 of the highest hate generated person on the team. He should have INSTANTLY GRABBED HATE BACK, and kept it.

Except that Provoke doesn't actually do anything useful over the long term. Medica II provides constant threat thanks to that regen. Even if you Provoke right after it's cast, you're just set at +1. The Regen is going to tick again within the next 3 seconds and that's 8 ticks of massive threat in the time you can, hopefully, get off the end of a BB combo. Medica II will *demolish* a tank's enmity generation. Provoke is a complete and utter joke.

Butchers block is not "8%". How on earth are you getting that number? Butcher's block is EXACTLY 5x the damage dealt in emninity generated. Pld has a wet noodle and no dps potential. Warrior hits for MOUNTAINS of damage with BB, and it's stacked with sunder, which is 3x damage as emnity, RIGHT BEFORE the other skill is popped. Your argument is invalid.

First off, PLD does not have we noodle DPS, nor does WAR have massively huge DPS. If you want to check, I've got the math shown in my sig. It's all right there: WAR does *not* do appreciably more damage than a WAR and PLD, in fact, generates more enmity thanks to getting to spam its high enmity combo rather than having to interweave a standard enmity combo.

Secondly, the 8% number comes from yet more basic math. The Halone combo has the exact same enmity modifiers as the Butcher's Block combo. The first two attacks also deal the exact same damage because they share the exact same potency (150 and 200, respectively). The only difference in enmity generation between Halone and BB is the damage dealt by the final attack: Halone has a potency of 260 and BB has a potency of 280. For this final attack (which is what was being referenced in the statement I quoted), the difference is a monumental 7.7%, which you would understand given that I actually posted the math right there for you to look at.

I highly recommend you actually read what you're attempting to debunk, not to mention actually understand the underpinning information that you should be operating off of rather than just going by kneejerk reactions or purely instinctual suppositions about performance. All you're did here was make yourself look like an idiot.

[Kaalan]

And there is no effective way to get those numbers with endgame gear so you'll need to meld or allot for DEX.

You only need 20 DEX to unlock the new cap for you parry. HQ DPS acc gives you 9 DEX, grab 3 and it's all good. A Fully geared WAR need some DPS acc anyway.

[Skull_Angel]

You only need 20 DEX to unlock the new cap for you parry. HQ DPS acc gives you 9 DEX, grab 3 and it's all good. A Fully geared WAR need some DPS acc anyway.

Do you have a link to parry rate testing? My searches always seem to turn up nothing but block/parry damage mitigation results.

[Kaalan]

I don't but I read multiple times that it was 211 so I can only assume it's true. You'll get 27 (= 218 DEX) anyway by grabbing neck/wrist/ear DPS and Tank ring anyway, which seems to be the perfect combination to me anyway.

[Brannigan]

Defiance should work like 1.xx Rampage did. Every crit heals us on a multiplier. This was what made WAR viable in 1.0, until they obsoleted paladin letting us full heal with SC. I guess that's the scare they have. But letting it stand as is, is the exact inverse of what happened to PLD in 1.0.

It is kind of weird that warriors gain no extra benefit from crit even though Wrath raises crit rate.

What really made paladin unused in 1.0 for a while was that basically all of their job actions sucked on release. Warrior is kind of in a similar state right now, where some of its abilities are just kind of lacking. A 1.0 paladin-style update it might be something like this:

Vengeance - becomes a mitigation cooldown similar to 1.0 - reduces damage from incoming attacks and returns a portion of the mitigated damage.
Unchained - Also increases parry rate for the duration.
Thrill of Battle - Shorter cooldown (90s?)
Enhanced Foresight - More defense increase, also increases magic def
Defiance - Healing increase no longer tied to Wrath, matches EHP with Shield Oath

This would make pld/war pretty similar in the number of defensive cooldowns available. Other things that could be changed are Inner Beast (shield instead of healing), Storm's Path (STR debuff instead of healing), and Steel Cyclone. Really, though, warrior isn't as bad as some people on the forums are making it out to be. Yes, they are worse than paladins, but stuff like Titan is easily doable as warrior. It's a bit after that where things start to get hairy.

[C-croft]

Do you have a link to parry rate testing? My searches always seem to turn up nothing but block/parry damage mitigation results.

Parry testing with WAR. I found and have been linked PLD with DEX stack testing, but I did bring up the question about it. I was hoping maybe DEX would have a hidden modifier for WARs and parry since most of our gear comes with parry. More DEX reduces diminishing returns of stack parry or something to that effect. It seems like a silly stat to have if stacking parry only helped you a minor portion of the time. I also got made fun of/flamed for bring it up to some. I do tend to believe it isn't useful compared to STR vs VIT from all the research done. My inkling of hope was that our 20% mitigation came from insane parry rates. enough rambling, sorry.