Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[MillieVanillie]

Wait, doesn't Defiance lower damage by 25%? I coulda sworn I was doing more damage with it off than on.

[Ehayte]

Wait until parties prefer PLDs over you for Titan/Coil :/

I have a feeling a fix will be passed down eventually, and I am not a super hard-core player. I've only pushed up through 21 with MRD, but if my effectiveness has been decreased by 20% by fun levels have been boosted by 50% : D

If it becomes unbearable I'd switch back but all this thinking and excitement of your HP going up and down up and down sound like a blast to me : D

[Kitru]

3 - DOUBLE Enmity generation?

Shield Oath increases enmity generation as well; it's not something unique to Defiance. If an equally geared PLD in Shield Oath wants to rip aggro off of a WAR, that WAR has 2 options: completely demolish its damage output by spamming BB combos and ignoring Maim and Storm's Eye (generates *slightly* more enmity than straight Halone, even without the buffs) or recognize that she's not going to keep aggro off of the PLD since the SE combo provides a substantial net loss to enmity generation.

I've tested this out *numerous* times in combat. If a PLD is played intelligently (which tends to be rare since there are a *lot* of completely idiotic PLDs out there; idiot WARs tend to get weeded out *very* early on), it's exactly what it looks like and susses out with the theory (which operates off of the supposition that Shield Oath and Defiance provide the same end enmity modifier). The enmity mod for Defiance and Shield Oath, if it's not identical, is so close that the difference between then doesn't make one.

[HiirNoivl]

the data you provided doesn't support this, when put side-by-side the other data provided in this thread. It doesn't match my data. in fact i'm barely in full darklight and we put out similar DPS numbers. the major difference is i'm rarely not at 20% crit. I will occasionally spike up to 25% for certain bosses. but for the most part, i'm 20% for everything and very rarely, if ever, drop below that.



ehhhh. except you're forgetting that the Lunatic Priest is also half of that fight. you had a 20% crit rate on. you spiked on the flayer for 33. which means you really had a 27% crit rate for that fight. you have to consider the entire encounter.

your crit rate on Anta was 22.6%. where's your 30% crit rate?

I don't know. That's why I much prefer real play damage testing to Dummy tests. But I got my 30% crit rate on Demon Wall too and part of that fight you're repelled. So if I hadn't gotten repelled then.... it would have been higher?

The Lunatic Priest on that fight is not half the fight by any stretch of the imagination. The Lunatic Priest dies in less than 30 secs. I only really look at 3 mobs in AK for results: Psychflayer, Demon Wall, and Anantaboga.

Demonwall is a very short fight, so you had a 30% crit there too. so you're getting your crits in big burts. in the longer fights, anta, your crit rate is more stable and closer to what I would expect.

Anantaboga lasts the same amount of time as Psychflayer. Part of the Psychflayer fight I'm not even hitting Psychflayer at all because I help DPS the adds like a Good WAR Tank. (*gimme a cookie please*).

across those 3 fights your crit rate was really 26.4%. your crit rate for the entire dungeon was about 27%. so your numbers are more consistent than you think. Data never lies. you just have to know how to read it.

You keep wanting to bring my numbers down... but still even if you try to bring the numbers down the fact is I should only be getting 22% crit rate for the few times I have both Wrath V and Internal Release up during the whole fight. Otherwise my Crit Rate over all should be closer to 14%-15%.

If the calculator is accurate, I should not be getting 22% crit rate overall of any of the fights. Much less 27% over the whole encounter. And I should not be getting 30-33% crit rate on any mob period.

There is no way that the Crit Rate Calculator is right about the buffs given. I don't know why it's not turning out the way the Calculator says it should, but it's not.

That's not my problem.

[Dhex]

Wait, doesn't Defiance lower damage by 25%? I coulda sworn I was doing more damage with it off than on.

Defiance lowers DMG -25% and raises HP +25%. So yes. You do less DMG with Defiance on - Defiance modifies enmity gain.

I've seen a lot of "DEX effects Crit" or "DEX effects ACC" going on in this thread and it's making my head hurt. If you're testing DEX gains by using DEX accessories please take note of the secondary effects on your gear; Spinel gives secondary Crit + stats, and Electrum gives STR/DEX and ACC. DEX isn't giving you ACC or Crit gains.

Putting on my BRD gear while on WAR -> 70 DEX changed my Crit & ACC stat exactly: 0

Parry 359 - naked.
Parry 359 - decked out in all my DEX gear from BRD.

[Lhun]

Actually, it's not.

First off, 8% is not "by far" (BB is 280 enmity; Halone is 260; 280/260 = 1.077). Secondly, Medica II is the highest hate generation in the game. It's not even a contest. Just *try* keeping aggro off of a WHM that's tossing out Medica II like crazy: it can't be done. The initial ping has an enmity modifier of .8 and the HoT is at a 1.0. Plus, it hits 8 targets and generates enmity on *everything*. A tank's worst nightmare is a WHM that doesn't know how to manage its enmity because, no matter what that tank does, that WHM is going to be tanking.

You need more warriors in your life. We're talking about single target emninity here, not group total eminity. This doesn't count at all.

Math: Damage Enmity = Healing enmity x2. Or, 1 point of damage = 2 points of hp healed - IN HATE GENERATED.

SE provides us a tool for this. Provoke brings hate to +1 of the highest hate generated person on the team. He should have INSTANTLY GRABBED HATE BACK, and kept it.

Butchers block is not "8%". How on earth are you getting that number? Butcher's block is EXACTLY 5x the damage dealt in emninity generated. Pld has a wet noodle and no dps potential. Warrior hits for MOUNTAINS of damage with BB, and it's stacked with sunder, which is 3x damage as emnity, RIGHT BEFORE the other skill is popped. Your argument is invalid.

[Lhun]

Defiance lowers DMG -25% and raises HP +25%. So yes. You do less DMG with Defiance on - Defiance modifies enmity gain.

I've seen a lot of "DEX effects Crit" or "DEX effects ACC" going on in this thread and it's making my head hurt. If you're testing DEX gains by using DEX accessories please take note of the secondary effects on your gear; Spinel gives secondary Crit + stats, and Electrum gives STR/DEX and ACC. DEX isn't giving you ACC or Crit gains.

Putting on my BRD gear while on WAR -> 70 DEX changed my Crit & ACC stat exactly: 0

Parry 359 - naked.
Parry 359 - decked out in all my DEX gear from BRD.

Parry is a completely separate stat from Dex that does not modify that number in any way. The rate at which you parry is directly modified by dex, and then again directly modified by the stat "parry". Dex does not modify "parry". The two together modify your rate of parry % chance in response to every enemy attack focused on you, except magical. It also works with aoe that isn't focused on you. The chance to parry is calculated every time there's incoming "non-direct, non-magical" damage.

[HiirNoivl]

SE provides us a tool for this. Provoke brings hate to +1 of the highest hate generated person on the team. He should have INSTANTLY GRABBED HATE BACK, and kept it.

This never happens. -.-

[Lhun]

This never happens. -.-

Sux don't it. The problem is, mages don't stop healing. I macroed tomahawk to be directly after provoke because the following happens:

big heal - Voke, I have hate for 0.00025 seconds until they heal it right off me, oops there's the tomahawk, which gives me 3x it's damage in enmity generated. Woot, now I can heavy, sunder, bb combo. Sometimes I'll do provoke - stun - heavy, sunder, bb combo when that happens.

[Dhex]

Parry is a completely separate stat from Dex that does not modify that number in any way. The rate at which you parry is directly modified by dex, and then again directly modified by the stat "parry". Dex does not modify "parry". The two together modify your rate of parry % chance across all responses to auto attack.

Either way stacking DEX is still asinine. Nothing at endgame is going to give Warrior DEX at lv50 - unless you're suggesting we should go buy Darklight's Aiming set - in which case you rob yourself of either +VIT +PARRY or +STR +CRIT depending on your opinion which are more important stats. By lowering Parry you're lowering the effectiveness of the DEX you add - by sacrificing STR you're lowering the Parry mitigation - by lowering VIT you're reducing your overall HP pool. Are you going to meld a significant amount of DEX? Allot your stat points to DEX +20? This would make my STR/DEX equal at 203 each at lv50 (with weapon stats removed).

It's pointless to mess with DEX in my opinion - it does nothing to actually bolster a Warrior's eHP.