Will Warriors ever get any LOVE?

[Gamemako]

Warrior is fine in the 4 man stuff but in coil warrior routinely dies when paladin has little issue staying alive.

There are a number of mechanics that 1 shot warriors due to their poor mitigation. Our warrior got so sick of getting 1 shot and causing wipes he rerolled paladin and has had no issue since.

From what I can tell, it looks like they just assumed PLD+WHM for every fight as a design basis. Result is that mechanics are focused around one opponent smashing for huge damage, which goes right ahead and kills WAR outright. That would not be a character balance problem, per se; that would be an encounter design problem. PLD scales to damage, so PLD wins in high-damage situations. Up and make almost every fight the exact same design scenario -- throw big damage at one guy -- and PLD is going to be preferred for every single fight. Of course, at the same time, the current overall battle design has healers with way too much MP and healing for way too much. With healing as it is, WAR has a tough time making a meaningful difference with its drain. Even the 300% recovery on Inner Beast is nothing when your tank is getting hit for 1000 damage per second. To match the additional mitigation from Shield Oath alone in that scenario, Inner Beast would have to heal about 3500 HP if it goes off every 17.5 seconds. That would be comically overpowered and won't happen. PLD is going to be the preferred tank in most situations for mathematical reasons.

WAR has a few other disadvantages, namely stun and silence, but that's really secondary to the fact that WAR can't tank because of how much they increased healing amounts (roughly double over Phase III) and how encounters are designed.

[Ryios]

Level Puglist to 8 and get second wind and feather foot = Evasion bonus + 400 hp emergency heal off gcd

They should make Inner beast 4 stacks for full heal... Five is just weird, you need a combo to gain wrath, so you end up 1 -> 2 -> 3 = 2 wrath 1 -> 2 -> 3 = 2 wrath (now you need 1 more wrath but have to waste 2 gcd's to get it and break up your 3 hit combo) . Inner beast at 4 would make things much better.

Also why the cooldown on unchained when it requires full wrath? I mean what's the point of the ability other than to compensate for bad gear to get hate?

It really would be more balanced at 4 wrath imo and much more acceptable from a healer/group perspective.

Secondly, we have TP issues with overpower. it's the only reliable way for us to hold aoe threat

Vengeance -> Over Power, then we run out of TP and lose adds. While paladins can spam flash with blind non stop and they can recover mana with Riot Blade. So I don't really get how warriors are better AOE tanks. Warriors are better for AOE trash that's going to die in under a minute, otherwise, not really unless they are getting tp buffs, but even then it runs out eventually. And if your DPS is going balls to the wall in relic +1 you can't really let up till you run out of TP. Secondly if a Paladin has all the adds with blind and they cure themselves it generates enimity on all the adds attacking them. Our inner beast probably doesn't do the same thing.

To me, I think Warrior's are better MT's Big Hit Eaters and that the gear from BC will make that more relevant once some Warriors get it. The bigger the gear gap gets the more that will stand out. A warrior with the best gear will out HP a pld by over 2k and Heal for a crap ton with Inner beast.

I don't think things are perfect right now, but I'm not quitting my war over it.

[Hachiko]

Pop Convalence -> Inner Beast = 20% bigger inner beast regardless
Pop Unchained -> Convolence -> Infuriate -> Inner Beast = 20% full dmg heal (way bigger)
Level Puglist to 8 and get second wind and feather foot = Evasion bonus + 10% heal off gcd

I find this to be pretty close to perfect, but they should make Inner beast 4 stacks for full heal... Five is just weird, you need a combo to gain wrath, so you end up 1 -> 2 -> 3 = 2 wrath 1 -> 2 -> 3 = 2 wrath (now you need 1 more wrath but have to waste 2 gcd's to get it and break up your 3 hit combo) . Inner beast at 4 would make things much better.

Also why the cooldown on unchained when it requires full wrath? I mean what's the point of the ability other than that 1 emergency BIG heal via the method I posted above?

So much of this is wrong.

Point one: Convalescence doesn't increase WAR self heals. Only incoming casted heals.

Point two: Unchained does nothing to increase Inner Beast damage because it already ignores the Defiance penalty.

Point three: Unless your WAR has 4000 hp endgame, Second Wind will not be a 10% heal.

Though I agree that inner beast should be available more often. And Featherfoot is the best defensive WAR cooldown other than Convolescence.

Unchained is a nearly pointless skill. Its only real use is to gain a huge threat lead in phase 1 when bosses usually don't do significant amounts of damage, or maybe for the rare burn phase (can be useful against Titan Heart). But it's mostly a trap - it reduces incoming healing AND it makes inner beast unavailable.

[Ryios]

My war has 6250 HP end game, and yeah I'm at work, so apologize the incorrectness.

And I popped convalence in a raid last night and got a bigger heal unless it landed at the exact time of a heal, don't think so though. It's possible for tooltips to be wrong.

Inner beast, I was indeed wrong on, sorry there, I'll fix it.

Also here's the tool tip from Conalescence

"Increases HP restored by spells or actions by 20%."

E.g. Actions Count

[ZephyrK]

My war has 6250 HP end game

His point was that unless you have very low HP, you aren't getting the returns on Second Wind you claimed you are. If you have 6250 HP, you would need Second Wind to heal 625 HP to be a 10% heal.

[Zezlar]

WAR had a leg up on Paladin for a looooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

[Ryios]

His point was that unless you have very low HP, you aren't getting the returns on Second Wind you claimed you are. If you have 6250 HP, you would need Second Wind to heal 625 HP to be a 10% heal.

Gotcha, was reading a bad site...

[Hachiko]

My war has 6250 HP end game, and yeah I'm at work, so apologize the incorrectness.

And I popped convalence in a raid last night and got a bigger heal unless it landed at the exact time of a heal, don't think so though. It's possible for tooltips to be wrong.

Inner beast, I was indeed wrong on, sorry there, I'll fix it.

Also here's the tool tip from Conalescence

"Increases HP restored by spells or actions by 20%."

E.g. Actions Count

You can test it. It does not increase healing from either a) % based healing (Lustrate, Thrill of Battle), or b) Self Heals such as Inner Beast, Blood Bath, Etc. (haven't tested it with second wind).

Another way to test this is against the last boss of AK. He puts a % debuff on youthat reduces healing by 50%. But your Inner Beasts will still heal you for normal amounts, even with the debuff.

Also worth noting: the self heals don't generate any threat, though activation of some of the abilities might.

[Kyri]

Im gonna have to agree with the OP here. I played PLD and WAR in 1.0 and preferred WAR in 1.0 much more. I like tanking and I don't mind WHM. Lately, I barely pop on to WAR to tank and tend to go as PLD. Partially I do this for my husbands sake who is my WHM (and always has been) because it eats up a great deal of his mp when I go WAR. When I go WHM I cringe when I see a WAR as my tank because though I love the job the curing spam I have to do can be insane so I have to agree with my husband. I love the job don't get me wrong. I guess maybe its a small payback from 1.0 when WAR all but took over tanking and left PLD in the dust(towards the end of 1.0) I am sure we will see some buffs as soon as they can find a way to balance it a bit more without completely replacing PLD as was in the end of 1.0.

[Gray_Spy]

You expect someone without a shield to take equal amounts of damage to the face...as say....someone with a shield?