Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[oceanlord]

I only used Titan because people in this thread think Titan is hard to do for WAR for some reason, but I have no problem tanking dreads either. Turn 5 is a different story but not like PLD is breezing through it.

are you stupid or something ? :/
ask your healer while tanking titan which one he prefer, heal you or heal paladin with same gear as you ?
you are a burden to your group

[Ragz]

You are a burden to your group, we can do Titan with 6 people. Difference.

[oceanlord]

You are a burden to your group, we can do Titan with 6 people. Difference.

cool story bro

[Kyzr]

You are a burden to your group, we can do Titan with 6 people. Difference.

You mean you're being carried by your FC on a legacy server. But hey, toMAYto, toMAHto, right?

[caspergrey]

Add in the Block advantage (22-26%), and what you see is that stoneskin only better for WAR when everything goes wrong for the PLD, and even then it's only worse by 12.5%

Only 12.5% worse? That's a lot. Maybe that's subjective, and sure I'm a pally so feel free to hate, but you can't say "only" 12.5% and say that isn't significant.

[zsedc]

Only 12.5% worse? That's a lot. Maybe that's subjective, and sure I'm a pally so feel free to hate, but you can't say "only" 12.5% and say that isn't significant.

12.5% is because he used a random 4.9khp for pld
if you calculate to get pld hp of of same gear and bonus attribute allocation, it would be 5515hp(7000/1.25 -85 http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=266) it's a 1.6% (1240:1260) only considering defiance and shield oath.

Edit: further thoughts, Lustrate impact on survivability of the tank classes should be the same since it's also max hp % based

[Kyzr]

Only 12.5% worse? That's a lot. Maybe that's subjective, and sure I'm a pally so feel free to hate, but you can't say "only" 12.5% and say that isn't significant.

I estimated 30% more HP for WAR than PLD for that, which is overshooting by a few hundred HPs. You're also saying 12.5% is a lot, because it's a few hundred HPs better. In truth, they're nearly identical, but because of Rampart, Block, and Sentinel, SS is WAAAAAAY better for a PLD than a WAR.

This is a direct refutation of the argument being made that WARs aren't bad, it's their healers, which is factually inaccurate on every level.

On a side note, very very few WARs want PLD nerfs. But if WARs are "working as intended", then you should expect nerfs to PLD sometime soon. It's very reasonable for both tanks to require roughly the same tier of gear to clear the same content. If the SE stance is that "People shouldn't be clearing Coil in iLevel-70 gear", then the only possible conclusion is that PLD is entirely too good. I hope they consider buffing WAR before they nerf PLD, but rest assured one of those is definitely happening.

[HiirNoivl]

Ragz how much HP do you have? I need a good metric as to where I should be on the HP scale when it comes to Coil.

I've already had to sacrifice a little of my Crit Rate Amazing buff (not enough to be gimp) so I could get my Accuracy up where it needed to be. Now I just need to make sure that my HP is where it needs to be and I'll be good to go.

Thanks

Before people start screaming that my sacrificing a bit of Crit proves that Crit doesn't work: I got 24% crit rate with a build that should have given me just a 12% crit rate...

"Why does a warrior not get their optimal gear through the normal tiered gear progression like everyone else?"

It does. What I'm doing isn't unusual. If a BLM wants to get the most out of his job, he'll do so by wearing HQ Vanya melds.

I had two choices, I could go with Darksteel or Darklight and I chose Darksteel very early on because research was already pointing to Darksteel HQ as better than Darklight. I had no idea how much better it was. I just decided to skip Darklight all together.

Now I'm really happy I made that decision. I'll gain even more when I switch to AF2 and I really think that Hero's Bracelet of Fending is BiS for WAR at the current time.

I wear a ring for tanking that you get from Behemoth and I eat food that you get from gathering and crafting.

These are normal activities for end game at my level. I've done really nothing special other than spend a lot of Philos and gear on experimenting to see what worked for WAR the best. But in the end it's all level 70 gear, it's all obtainable at end game.

I'm running the same dungeons as you, I have primal Weps I have all the resources that other WARs have.

I have done nothing spectacular other than gear my WAR to be its best.

You're missing the point of this thread entirely. it's not about how good can you make a war now. it's how do we bridge the gap between war and pld. having better gear than a paladin isn't the answer to that.

You yourself said a couple posts ago that Darklight is not optimal for war, but it is optimal for PLD. Which is why it underperforms. IE: we, as warriors, do not have the same tiered progression as paladin. between our AF, which is made for our class, we share ALL other upgrades until AF2.

Darksteel is better than darlkight. that is obvious. but you're failing to realize/admit that you're performing on par with paladins who are wearing worse gear than you. that's the whole problem.

Most Darklight is no good for WARs. There's only one piece I can really recommend and that is Heavy Darklight Armor, and Heavy Darksteel Armor is STILL better. But rather than complain about how unfair that is I go with it. WAR is harder to play.

It's not better or worse gear. PLD gear is the worst for WAR. All it gives you is STR, VIT, Parry, and Accuracy, when you can get Accuracy with Crit on your Darklight jewelry or with melds. Don't worry so much about Parrying when you know that you can only Parry certain kinds of damage and it does little for your overall mitigation on anything but trash mobs. It's a PLD stat.

After Darksteel you should go straight to AF 2. Head Body and Hands, and then keep your Heavy Darksteel Legs until you can get the Allagan Flanchard to go with your Breeches. (Interestingly, these pieces emphasize Determination.)

Hero's Bracelet of Fending, Hero's Belt of Fending... but those should be supplemented by Maiming or Striking for your Ears and Neck and Ring.

My gear is the same as level PLD gear. iLvl70. The fact that I stick some materia on it makes it better for me, but even without materia it's better for me. PLD should go with Darklight.

What I'm confused is why you think my gear is "better" than a PLD when a PLD would probably suck with my gear on.

[caspergrey]

Yeah, I'm not necessarily disagreeing about the other skills. And I agree with your end goal. I was just pointing out that 12.5% is small chuck of change :P

[Onisake]

It does. What I'm doing isn't unusual. If a BLM wants to get the most out of his job, he'll do so by wearing HQ Vanya melds.

I had two choices, I could go with Darksteel or Darklight and I chose Darksteel very early on because research was already pointing to Darksteel HQ as better than Darklight. I had no idea how much better it was. I just decided to skip Darklight all together.

Now I'm really happy I made that decision. I'll gain even more when I switch to AF2 and I really think that Hero's Bracelet of Fending is BiS for WAR at the current time.

I wear a ring for tanking that you get from Behemoth and I eat food that you get from gathering and crafting.

These are normal activities for end game at my level. I've done really nothing special other than spend a lot of Philos and gear on experimenting to see what worked for WAR the best. But in the end it's all level 70 gear, it's all obtainable at end game.

I'm running the same dungeons as you, I have primal Weps I have all the resources that other WARs have.

I have done nothing spectacular other than gear my WAR to be its best.

You're missing the point of this thread entirely. it's not about how good can you make a war now. it's how do we bridge the gap between war and pld. having better gear than a paladin isn't the answer to that.

You yourself said a couple posts ago that Darklight is not optimal for war, but it is optimal for PLD. Which is why it underperforms. IE: we, as warriors, do not have the same tiered progression as paladin. between our AF, which is made for our class, we share ALL other upgrades until AF2.

Darksteel is better than darlkight. that is obvious. but you're failing to realize/admit that you're performing on par with paladins who are wearing worse gear than you. that's the whole problem.