OMG Give us an AOE heal that is not worthless!

[Eriane]

Only reason i ask is that in most situations even a white mage isn't spamming medica all day, they really can't in alot of situations (mana, threat, overhealing). Rather they let medica 2 tick away and heal the damage combined with regen. Thats actually the reasoning as to why cure 3 is used rarely if ever if you have ever visited the threads on the spell. Its just not needed and too situational.

There are not many fights where the raid is taking such heavy damage so quickly that medica 2 doesn't have time to actually work. Purely from a whm perspective.

What im getting at is assuming a properly geared and competent raid. Ei dps not being dumb and taking avoidable damage... If medica 2 has time to work why can't two scholars and the two fairies work together to heal even if it means alternating fairy cooldowns or one sch using st heals.

[ApolloGenX]

What im getting at is assuming a properly geared and competent raid. Ei dps not being dumb and taking avoidable damage... If medica 2 has time to work why can't two scholars and the two fairies work together to heal even if it means alternating fairy cooldowns or one sch using st heals.

I think you are correct in the current game. It is possible that we will see other mechanics in the future that will act differently. There have been raid mechanics which, for example hit the raid for 90 percent health all at once.

Those are the situations that I can see Cure 3 would be viable, if the range was increased. Mechanics that force everyone down to a point where any other incidental damage could kill someone if they aren't healed up quickly.

Likewise, pre-shields could be incredibly important in those situations, if the mechanics didn't remove them, as they would buffer incidental damage to keep it form killing someone.

[Soukyuu]

Just finished the main story (2xSCH, too) without any problems. A few times one DD went down after messing up avoiding the AoE, but that's about it. Looking forward to the next fights, and judging from people playing them, there should be no issues.

About the only time where I wished to have a stronger AoE is Aurum Vale's locksmith. And only because the fairy isn't affected by the fruit consumption (HUGE oversight, SE!), so you basically have to either heal alone once she dies, or resummon with swiftcast (which I couldn't try because we barely came through without the fairy). On Coincounter and Miser though, no problems healing. Stable HP. So I still see no reason why we would need a better AoE heal beyond making the class less dependent on the fairy.

[MelvinK]

I think you are correct in the current game. It is possible that we will see other mechanics in the future that will act differently. There have been raid mechanics which, for example hit the raid for 90 percent health all at once.

Those are the situations that I can see Cure 3 would be viable, if the range was increased. Mechanics that force everyone down to a point where any other incidental damage could kill someone if they aren't healed up quickly.

Likewise, pre-shields could be incredibly important in those situations, if the mechanics didn't remove them, as they would buffer incidental damage to keep it form killing someone.

Sch is very useful in coil especially turn 4. Sacred coil is the game changing ability that allow tank to survive dreadnaught with buffs. my coil group we are running 2 WHMs at the moment but we are seriously looking into scholar to beat this encounter.

[Kyomih]

The one legitimate point I think everyone can make is that the cross-class Scholar (E4E) and WHM (protect/stoneskin) clearly favors the WHM. E4E is freaking strong. Non-traited protect/stoneskin is barely a pimple of efficiency. You can also get non-traited protect from a paladin, so we are only talking about stoneskin. Stoneskin compared to E4E? It's not even in the same ballpark. It's a massive WHM advantage.

WHM gets one of our best mitigation abilities. We get one of their worst mitigation abilities. Very meh.

Yes, very true. I've been mentioning that in other threads before. The Cross-Class skills need another look at. However, I am a bit worried that full stoneskin plus the SCH shields will make it a tiiiny but too powerful? Probably not though.

And no one is asking for straight buffs, god why are whm's so damn dense? We need pet fixes and an aoe. That is it. Really guys. That's it.

This is not a WHM vs SCH fight. Why is it that it always has to come down to namecalling? I play both classes and love both (not on the same character though, at least not yet).
I don't recall anyone not agreeing with the pet fix issue and I think several people in this thread including SCH have been pointing out why giving you a stronger AoE would make for a horrible balance nightmare. You have a huge arsenal of mitigation skills, use them. If you are really so incredibly bothered by the AoE you should really rather play a WHM as your mean (and I don't mean that as an insult or attack but it seems you are more in favour of direct/reactive healing than mitigation/pro-active healing).

[kronpas]

^ partly because people read the first post (which is hugely mistaking), then jump right to the newest page to cry foul of every single SCH out there. I can even dig out SCH in this thread trash talked other people with "L2P" and the like, lol.

Lets make it clear: not every SCH wants a straight AoE buff, but making a stacked SCH party less punishing. Between buggy AI and weak AoE, the least we want is canceling out each other's AoE when there are 2 of us in the same place (dont pretend like DF wasnt exist!). I'm fine with relying on a WHM in the same group, but another SCH doesnt improve the situation at all is just WTF game design.

[Kyomih]

snip

Good point, yes.
I agree that the stacking is an issue and it has always been in games with such designs. I remember there is at least one class in any mmo I played who has this issue. It's a design problem because just making it stack normally would make it too powerful, especially since you don't get the hate two WHMs get with Medica II or our other AoEs and have the fairy healing on top. So it will take a whole lot of number crunching and design adjustment to fix this.

I remember having the same issue with Chanters in Aion since Mantras (the class' defining mechanic) didn't stack for the same reason.

[kronpas]

I dont know. Blizz apparently find a way around shield stacking for WoW, or that game has too many healers the issue never truly surfaced. But being SE, I never expect them to perform on the same level as Blizz (both in service and game design philosophy) :\

I just find it funny here there are two SCH camps: one bitterly cries for a direct buff, disregarding class design and the biggest issue ATM: the pet AI& control; the other one flat out tells the another "L2P" just because they reached higher content, while conveniently forgets a healer is only as good as the group he/she is in. Most WHMs tend to tell SCH to "learn to play" though. They even try to teach us how to use shield "preemptively" ..... ugh.

[Ordoric]

people just like to hate on whm

[ApolloGenX]

I dont know. Blizz apparently find a way around shield stacking for WoW, or that game has too many healers the issue never truly surfaced. But being SE, I never expect them to perform on the same level as Blizz (both in service and game design philosophy) :\

I seem to recall disc shields not stacking, and disc priests having a weaker PoH than holy that they had to spam. Disc didn't have the group shields like scholars get- they just had PW Barrier... kinda like a stronger sacred soil. two disc did stack worse than two holies. The same problem existed there. Again, mana was less of a problem for disc, because of rapture, so they could spam a bit more and got a little added haste added with borrowed time. It actually wasn't much better in that game. The only difference was that you had to single target shield people and the shields were stronger. (With mana return on popped shields). Even there the proc on PoH shields would have the same issues as the group heal/shield here... except you only got ok shields on a crit, but here you always get the shield.

That is how it was back when I played, at least. Disc had a harder time refilling health if you didn't pre-emptively shield. they just had a wealer PoH to spam... while a holy had a stronger PoH, PW:Sanctuary, Renew, CoH, and the raid CD hymn. Holy was a TON faster at filling health bars there, too.