I am excited to see what happens when subs kick in.

[Orsnoire]

I don't know... just companies that make 2 billion a year in subs and still charge for expansions... seems greedy to me. Also, not updating the graphics with even hi res texture packs (Which wouldn't exclude people with lower end machines from still playing the game). Seems like they only did what was necessary and nothing more. The responsiveness falls under "Necessary" in my opinion.

ITT: a person who doesn't understand profit economics (or is willfully ignorant about it).

Dude, charging money for things is how companies make money. All these B2P or "F"2P games are what are truly cheap and obnoxious trends in the market. Second-rate games that try to masquerade as first-rate games all the while perpetuating a severely undervalued money exchange for the game.

As far as graphics: eh...I've had people telling me for years that other MMOs have "far better" graphics than WoW, then play them only to see how truly awful the graphics engines are. People also used to say that Mortal Kombat had the "best graphics" ever and was better than Street Fighter II. MEHSTORM!! Animation and smoothness of the graphics engine are both FAR more important than textures or frozen images. It amazes me that still, in 2013, we have people who are silly enough to think that textures/images > animation.

[Orsnoire]

Whatever i said is common sense and based on the past trend of post release P2P MMOS and their downfall. That is why i said in beginning that one doesn't need a crystal ball to guess the obvious. FFXIV is just another themepark MMO like its predecessors and i see no reason why it will have a different fate when it is even though fun is as generic as it gets in terms of features. What FFXIV does, every other MMO also does it and more on top of that offers it in F2P or B2P package.

So yeah i already know for sure how things are going to turn out in few months for FFXIV. Again this is not being gloomer or droomer but being practical. I have learned from the past, maybe you haven't.

You're comparing apples to oranges. The reasons behind recent P2P games' failures is far more simple than you're making it out to be:

They've all been extremely poorly designed.

This is the first game since WoW that has taken the model, added substantive things to that framework, and produced a game worthy of the AAA title. Are there bugs? yep. Is there a lack of content? Absolutely. The difference is that those two things are openly acknowledged and that we've gotten fixes for those things in the recent past (and there is a major content patch in the immediate future).

So yes, you're being doom and gloom, and not practical. "Practical" includes being realistic about ALL of the factors involved, of which you've ignored several key factors.

[Nikki]

So yes, you're being doom and gloom, and not practical. "Practical" includes being realistic about ALL of the factors involved, of which you've ignored several key factors.

Oh please every MMO that came out before FFXIV had similar amount of content or more. SWTOR, RIFT, Tera etc..all these MMOS had good launches, minimum bugs and had similar amount of content and even more.

All these were AAA titles and have been frequently adding content, RIFT being on the top in terms of content addition. All these MMOS were also following WOW formula. And yet players kept on leaving because it is just too hard to maintain a subscription based MMO due to very saturated market and high competition. Players have way too many choices these days.

Realistic people like me have experienced it all so know how it works. You make it sound as if FFXIV is the first to take WOW model and added substantive things to that framework. But that is the fanboy inside you which is refusing to see the reality. No wonder i look like a doomer and gloomer to you.

Bookmark this post now and visit it again in 6 months. You might think differently.

[Doki]

I can't imagine their overhead is too high... There's far more recycled enemies from FFXI, FFXII, and FFXIII in this game than there are new ones. Quite a few of them don't even look like they used new textures.

[Orsnoire]

Oh please every MMO that came out before FFXIV had similar amount of content or more. SWTOR, RIFT, Tera etc..all these MMOS had good launches, minimum bugs and had similar amount of content. All these weer AAA titles and have been frequently adding content, RIFT being on the top in terms of content addition.

Realistic people like me have experienced it all so know how it works. You make it sound as if FFXIV is the first to do something like that and all other devs don't give a damn about their products. But that is the fanboy inside you which is refusing to see the reality. No wonder i look like a doomer and gloomer to you.

I can guarantee I've experienced more in the MMO genre than you have, as long as you want to turn this into a power struggle and a pissing match. The fact of the matter is, games aren't interchangeable. There IS a difference between game A and game B. SWTOR, RIFT, Tera, FF XIV 1.0, etc. are all piss-poorly developed games, and anyone who is objective acknowledges that fact. RIFT, granted, has "more" content, but to claim it's better is just silly. The initial endgame content in RIFT was universally criticized in the industry. And that was the best of the bunch that you mentioned. They were only "AAA" titles (quotes used intentionally) and were despised by the MMO playing audience immediately with most players never reaching the first billing month.

Right now in FF XIV, the only real complaint about endgame is that there isn't enough of it so you have to run the same (generally hailed as well-designed) dungeon over and over. But that changes in 2 months when CT and new dungeons come out.

So yeah, you're being a doom and gloomer. You have no idea WTF you're talking about. Also, LOL at the use of fanboy just because someone disagrees with your wide brush overgeneralization.

[Fuz]

For the end game being completely unplayable, I'm sure having fun with it.

Being unable to do it personally doesn't make it unplayable, just sayin...

'K. Bye.


..........

[Nikki]

I can guarantee

No i used the term fan boy because you don't even know a simple fact that FFXIV isn't the first MMO to use WOW framework. Wasn't that your original statement? and that is BS.

Only because in your opinion SWTOR? RIFT etc were badly made MMOS doesn't mean it is some universal truth. However what is a universal FACT is that MMO market is too saturated now days and competition is high. Players have more choices and if they don't like a certain MMO they move on.

Could you show me the link of this 'universally criticized Rift end game content'? if not then stop pulling stuff out of you know where.

For some one who claims to know it all you clearly have no idea that MMOS failing these days have more to do with saturated market than the games itself. You think a lot of people are not criticizing FFXIV? or you just willfully ignorant because obviously you don't want to see that. For every player who says SWTOR is bad i will show you equal numbers who say FFXIV sucks.

Welcome to internet where all MMOS are hated. But that is not what we are talking about here now are we? we are talking about viability of SUB based MMOS among this highly saturated market of WOW clones and very high competition.

Long story short: Nikki is a hipster.

Gotcha. Nothing to see here.

In other words 'i have no more stuff to pull out of my behind'.

I don't think 'hipster' means what you think it means.

[Shiyo]

I'm not sure you can say Blizzard are a cheap lazy dev, granted graphically the game looks like a turd but underneath it there is a very solid game with very solid dungeon and end game content. (the reason so many people play WoW is because there is so much to do)

There actually isn't, since WOTLK there's about a month of content to do per expansion, then a 2-4 weeks of content per major content update. WOW has the least amount of relevant content of any MMO I've played.

Right now in FF XIV, the only real complaint about endgame is that there isn't enough of it so you have to run the same (generally hailed as well-designed) dungeon over and over. But that changes in 2 months when CT and new dungeons come out.

Lack of good/enough end game content is why every wow-clone MMO has failed since WOW, actually. FF14 doesn't fix this problem at all. Release super quick/easy to level up games with extremely lacking end game content, the bane of every WOW clone MMO's existence for the past decade. 2.1 looks good, but will it be enough? Probably not.

Of course not.
And because it is not enough, SE also plan 2.2, 2.3, 2.4 and so on.
And somedays it have enough content that a new player don't know what to do first.

No, you can't release 2.1 then say "but in 3-4 months you'll get more content!", the 2.1 content updates needs to have enough content to last 3-4 months, if it doesn't, it isn't enough. It might, I hope it does, but I highly doubt it.

[Orsnoire]

Long story short: Nikki is a hipster.

Gotcha. Nothing to see here.

I don't think 'hipster' means what you think it means.

Per the urban dictionary:

\hip-stur\n. One who possesses tastes, social attitudes, and opinions deemed cool by the cool. (Note: it is no longer recommended that one use the term "cool"; a Hipster would instead say "deck.") The Hipster walks among the masses in daily life but is not a part of them and shuns or reduces to kitsch anything held dear by the mainstream.

i.e. you hate MMOs cause it's cool to hate MMOs, and you hold the same dumbass positions about MMOs that are dictated to you by the "cool" blogs and bloggers (i.e. Cynical Brit).

I stand by my statement. You're nothing but another sheep hipster.

[Gauntduo]

For those who dont have credit cards why not just buy a visa gift card for 20 bucks and use that?