Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[SpookyGhost]

This is pretty much impossible simply due to WAR and PLD sharing the same gear. Tank gear in ARR is universal, so unless you split tanking gear between WAR and PLD gear.

AF2 gear for both, except possibly PLD's boots, are the best in the game and those sets can't be shared. With just AF2 gear, from what I've checked, WAR gets more determination and skill speed; whereas PLD gets higher crit rate and parry. The determination difference is actually quite large (+39 vs +17), but I'm not sure if that means much as I don't know how determination points work in terms of health regen potency. Also, with PLD in Heavy Allagan Flanchards the difference is slightly less (+39 vs +28)... but if you give WAR them too you end up with another big difference (+50 vs +28).

These calcs are also w/ no jewels, no weapon and Hero's Belt of Fending since I was just trying to base it purely on head/body/waist/legs/feet at max.

Just wanted to throw that out there since I never see people talking about WAR and PLD at max gear. Dunno if it makes any real difference but maybe it's worth sharing. :B

[zsedc]

Tank stances double enmity generation. Crits generate an extra 50% enmity, so the crit bonuses are 50% higher.

More tests that others have done that you might want to adjust for in your calculations.

Ventus Invictus tested the shield oath at the end of this post http://ventusinvictus.blogspot.sg/20...din-guide.html , I recall reading warriors reporting same observations on defiance on his reddit posts. Apparently SE changed it in P4, so more testing required? If the enmity bonus on shield oath is still the same as defiance, shouldn't affect your conclusion.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...flash_testing/ by Kestial. "Critical hits do not generate additional enmity besides their higher damage." Have not seen any later tests on this.

Thanks for putting the numbers for comparison.

[HiirNoivl]

Also it takes a really short amount of time to go from 1-50 in this game playing normally and end game content is anything that requires you to get out of AF gear (though for a warrior that may be a lot of things).

The reason is when you get to endgame, the bar raises significantly and the endgame gear provided by Tokens does not actually upgrade WAR to the level of the endgame content. So people think that WAR is broken when they've geared wrong.

Not only have they geared wrong but they may have specced wrong and may be playing incorrectly.

It could be anything, but yeah I'm playing WAR as a Critical hit Buffed tank and I deal heavier damage than I take, in fact, when I'm holding Wrath V and I use Internal release the amount of critical hits likely hits the 40% range, but I need to test some more.

If you're a WAR, you need to do two things, deal a lot of damage in a short period of time and heal up a lot of HP and deal a lot of damage.

Because people's IBs are not critting, their damage is not critting, the think that WAR is weak and squishy. But I think... WAR is "very strong".

But to get "very strong'. you have to spend a lot of gil and effort and people think that WAR should be like PLD, all easy mode with 0 effort.

But it's not. IF you want to deal 1.5 more damage as WAR to get it ready for endgame to the point that it's a MT in coil you have to spend gil you have to craft and you have to do all he uncool things that have little to do with dungeons.

This is pretty much impossible simply due to WAR and PLD sharing the same gear. Tank gear in ARR is universal, so unless you split tanking gear between WAR and PLD gear (this would make the drop system even more random than it currently is) you're not going to see this massive divergence caused by gear.

The divergence between PLD and WAR is in the jobs' mechanics and how they deal with incoming damage.

You can use Darklight Armor with with WAR but I don't recommend any other Darklight. Darksteel HQ is far better.

[Hitokirinomad]

Hiir, I'll bite. *If* everything that you said is 100% accurate (and you've btw changed your stance on how to tank as a warrior 4 times in the last month: stack vit, no stack str, no stack skill speed, no stack CRIT), how is it not an amazing design flaw for Warriors to be the one class in the game that needs..to NOT use their Relic, NOT use DL, NOT use Allagan gear that is supposed to be designed FOR them? If everything you said is accurate, Warriors have the worst itemization in the game, and that needs to absolutely be fixed, because every piece of gear they are working for is detrimental to them.

[HiirNoivl]

Hiir, I'll bite. *If* everything that you said is 100% accurate (and you've btw changed your stance on how to tank as a warrior 4 times in the last month: stack vit, no stack str, no stack skill speed, no stack CRIT), how is it not an amazing design flaw for Warriors to be the one class in the game that needs..to NOT use their Relic, NOT use DL, NOT use Allagan gear that is supposed to be designed FOR them? If everything you said is accurate, Warriors have the worst itemization in the game, and that needs to absolutely be fixed, because every piece of gear they are working for is detrimental to them.

Hey I'm allowed to change position as I experiment. Stacking VIT was something I said early on... and it worked... for a while. And then it didn't. >.<

Stacking STR worked... some what... but... Not enough.

Skill Speed also worked. But. It's too DIFFICULT!

Stacking Crit though...

https://i.imgur.com/4YrKI4T.png

DPS is 4th column from total. Crit Rate is 4th column from the end. (Average Crit Rate here is 24.2875)

I think I'm on the right track. Yoshi P says to do research so Research I do! ^o^

I don't think WARs were meant to be played with traditional Tank gear. It makes 0 sense that gear for PLD is good gear for WAR when they're played and implemented so differently.

I mean if blocking and evasion and defense is a PLDs job and DPS and self cures and damage dealing is WARs job, then why in the world would you wear the same gear as a PLD. It makes no sense.

You can wear SOME of the same gear but not ALL of your pieces will be the same.

For example. I would Definitely prefer the Warrior's Burgeonet to the Allagan Helm because the Allagan Helm seems to be geared toward Parry and the Warrior's Burgeonet has two stats built toward DD which is Skill Speed Determination. I think Heavy Darklight Armor is OK for a WAR but ideally crafted gear is better.

I fully believe that as a WAR I benefit from multiple gear sets for multiple situations.

[Terendal]

Or instead of spending ridiculous amounts of money gearing up when every other class can obtain their gear through normal means... you can play a paladin with a fraction of the effort to accomplish the exact same things.
That's not even assuming what you claim about stats/itemization being correct, which has not been proven.

Aren't you pretty much reinforcing the discrepancy of pal vs war? If investing more in gear is your equalizing element then that's not a solution for balance at all. It just points out how lopsided it really is.

[Kaalan]

Not only have they geared wrong but they may have specced wrong and may be playing incorrectly.

Talk about giving the stick to be beaten with.

I'm really curious, with you str/crit stacking, how much hp do you have ? how much parry ? how much accuracy ?
It seems to me that you have a great farming gear for extremely easy content, but I'm pretty sure this isn't viabe at all for Coil.

What parser are you using ? Doesn't look like FFXIVAPP who's pretty crappy, I'd like to confront some numbers when I have the time for that.

[Hitokirinomad]

I don't think WARs were meant to be played with traditional Tank gear. It makes 0 sense that gear for PLD is good gear for WAR when they're played and implemented so differently.

I mean if blocking and evasion and defense is a PLDs job and DPS and self cures and damage dealing is WARs job, then why in the world would you wear the same gear as a PLD. It makes no sense.

You kind of argue my point. You have to NOT use gear that is TANK specific, or WAR specific. **You put away your relic +1.** If that is OPTIMAL, then it's not research Warriors need to do. It's broken itemization that needs to get fixed. Again, this is me assuming that you are correct, which is accepting your argument over...math.

[HiirNoivl]

You kind of argue my point. You have to NOT use gear that is TANK specific, or WAR specific. **You put away your relic +1.** If that is OPTIMAL, then it's not research Warriors need to do. It's broken itemization that needs to get fixed. Again, this is me assuming that you are correct, which is accepting your argument over...math.

I have hard time explaining myself. I put away the Bravura +1 BEFORE I melded... Read the post... Like seriously read it.

Without actually spending any gil or time or effort, I raised my Crit rate considerably... Once I saw results I went and melded. I think you guys are so anti-WAR at this point that when I talk you don't actually hear what I say but latch on to the first remotely negative aspect, stop reading and then respond. Without actually really spending any gil I raised my Crit Rate to see if it might work before I went and spent more.

Common sense people.

Aren't you pretty much reinforcing the discrepancy of pal vs war? If investing more in gear is your equalizing element then that's not a solution for balance at all. It just points out how lopsided it really is.

Yoshi P said "WAR is harder to play. It's more technical"

So yeah there's a discrepency. If you have issues investing in gear to get your WAR ready for endgame then yeah you will have issues.

WAR with dungeon drops and no crafted gear is not really going to get your foot in the door with coil...

Crafted gear is way better for WAR than drops. At best you'll be half-baked WAR tank which is what people are complaining about.

You have to do a bit more to get your WAR tank ready for endgame. Yoshi P says people think that PLD is better now, but they'll see soon.

I don't think we've actually seen what WAR can do. We've been too busy muddling around looking for the answers that were actually spelled out to us in the patch notes. (Well, some of us have been muddling around. Most people playing WAR cried and switched to PLD.) But I think people will be switching back.

I'm not changing my main. I think I'm falling in love with WAR all over again.

[Wangstrong]

Common sense people.

That's hilarious coming from you, the most frequent purveyor of nonsense and stupid ideas on this forum.