Advantages of WHM over SCH?

[rylai]

Please don't tell me I'm posting misinformation without evidence.

WHM has 2 DoTs as well. They do not have Bane to spread them, but during AoE trash Holy is the spell to go to anyway.

They do not have access to the pet healer, but we are talking about farming content that we outgear. A regen will be enough to keep your tank alive in most trash packs.

I'm not entirely sure what type of evidence you're looking for. Would you like me to give you a link to our damage spells or something?

I can give you some anecdotal evidence by saying, "Well my DoT's alone tick for about 600 or so," but that doesn't really do this conversation any good.

[Jacina]

Heh and I thought levelling was slow as hell when on my conjurer...

A SCH in "full dps mode" can stack up dots to 205 potency (with some of them having some nice side effects) it takes 3 full casts to do this. Around 115 of this is aoe.

A SCH is still healing while dotting (fairy) and can heal in between keeping dot stacks up.

A SCH also has cleric stance.

Also read the thread, this is from further up:
Low healing required - DPS race: SCH, hands down.
The WHM has more burst damage, but the spells are too mana intensive. SCH can dot up, throw up cleric stance to have the dots do more damage, and then take it back down when it's time to heal. They can also swap to the utility fairy which will boost the skill/spell speed of actual DPS classes.

[fanservice]

You are not counting SCH dots.

SCHs have 3 dots to a WHM's 2.

SCHs can have 5 if they give up more useful cross class skills for aero, and thunder. WHM's can have 3 with thunder.

Since WHMs already have stoneskin, protect, and cleric stance, there is more breathing room for them to get thunder with virus, eye for an eye, swiftcast, and surecast. SCHs best choice would be to drop surecast for thunder compared to protect, stoneskin, cleric stance, and swiftcast. Good luck choosing something else to drop for aero, though. This is assuming we're talking about 4 mans.

You can barely count miasma ii as a 6th dot due to it's comparitively short duration of 15 seconds, and 10 potency. It's also a point-blank AOE around the player.

WHM's have a single target nuke (170) with over double the potency of ruin per cast with a higher mind stat to abuse with cleric stance.

SCH vastly out damages WHM

Given the above, doubt that.

In bursts, WHMs win easy, though.

and can offer some offheals via the pet while doing it.

Medica ii, and regen says hi.

They can also swap to the utility fairy which will boost the skill/spell speed of actual DPS classes.

I do abuse this in places I could fall asleep healing, but let's not pretend that ~.1 second off of 2.5 second casts/recasts at best is a dealbreaker .

[gigi_frana]

~.1 second off of 2.5 second casts/recasts at best

is it that low?
I mean 30% of 2.5 is 0.83 => 1.7s cast...

[Kinseykinz]

We have an 'OH SHIT!' Button and you don't. (Benediction)

[kronpas]

Although lustrate is kinda weaker (20x3), its on shorter CD and easier to utilize since its split into 3 casts.

is it that low?
I mean 30% of 2.5 is 0.83 => 1.7s cast...

This is easily the biggest mistake every SCH (or even everybody) made. No, its -30% of your BONUS stats, or w/e it is, so the actual %speed is pretty pathetic ATM. check it out in game. Coupled with its wanky 1S silence, Selene suddenly turned out worthless.

[Jarlax]

I see this has turned into another debate over how a WHM is so much better than a SCH. My favorite argument is the mana argument saying "ohh well you have a bard" this is comical because now your talking about two different players working together, while comparing it to one.

Ultimately I don't care if SE gave in and said ok lets give a SCH the same healing potency and area abilities as the WHM, but now every pet spell costs the SCH MP, as well as every pet spell transfers the hate to the SCH, as well as shields yielding the same hate as a regular heal, couple that with if the SCH is running or kiting mobs the fairy doesn't do anything unless you stop, and just give you instant regen to use in that situation. Take away the mana regen you have and give you shroud of saints as your only MP regen tool "and bards". Then fix the pet UI, and make it so both of you can not cast at the same time and your fairy goes by your range to target and can no longer be sent across the room to heal people out of range unless you move in range all the while not casting while you move. That sounds about equal.

I see arguments here that are based on one of the highest MP cost abilities we have aside from Holy and Revive that also come with the most hate. I cast Medica II twice in a row that is 1/4 of my MP bar, if I medica II then medica I it's about the same. You say oh well bard "that's a team not a solo comparison". I can say well you don't need a big AoE heal you have a WHM in that same context.

So lets just say you had a big bomb heal and you got agro from just about every mob in the pile minus a few. You can kite around while your fairy heals people and use instants, when that happens to me I have to regen folks, and stopping to cast a heal may cost me my life and a wipe, so it is not like I am tossing medica's around like candy here unless I want to die or I want to run out of MP and the group die, this is only used when it is absolutely necessary because of the consequences.

It seems pretty fair with the amount of hate SCH build, their mana regen, and utilities, with the ability to heal and move, a pet UI fix is about all that is really needed anything more would be overkill. Like increasing my mana regen or lowering my hate to that of a SCH would be overkill.

[Kyomih]

You say oh well bard "that's a team not a solo comparison". I can say well you don't need a big AoE heal you have a WHM in that same context.

Great post but I particularly like that you brought this argument up.

[rylai]

snip

Feel free to doubt me all you like. Your anecdotal evidence is just as good as mine. Until you run an updated parser or a sim, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to convince you otherwise.

Also, stoneskin is pretty garb for SCH. I rarely take it.

[fanservice]

is it that low?
I mean 30% of 2.5 is 0.83 => 1.7s cast...

It is that low.

It's 30% more of your bonus spell/skill speed rating from the looks of it.