Dear Square Enix! Make the game harder, not easier!

[Aicasia]

I've never understood this mindset.

What you achieve when content is "relevant" will never be taken away from you. Why does it matter what others achieve when they outgear the content you tackled when you were undergeared?

Why does it matter to you if other people get to down the boss, and get some shiny loot? You already got your shiny loot. Stop being so damn selfish and insecure.

Because that's part of being human. Yeah, you know your achievements, you know what they mean to you, but they're worthless. Because if everyone is 'special', then no one is. If everyone is at the top, then they're also at the bottom. There should always be something that not everyone can just log on and do because they 'felt like it'.

That's the whole damn point of a gear treadmill. That's the whole damn point of putting the carrot on the friggin' stick. If you can just grab everything, if you can just reach out and grab that carrot, then the designers are doing something wrong. An MMO that doesn't put things just out of your reach, that doesn't make you put in time and effort, is an MMO doomed to fail.

There is a reason people say vanilla and Pre-2.4 TBC WoW were the best points in the game's history, and it wasn't that 'new mmo' smell.

Nerfing content is fine, but not for the wrong reasons. Nerfing raids because casual X can't invest the time to find a group of people to do it with is a bad reason. If you can't put in the time why do you deserve the same level of gear? THAT is entitlement.

[LiadansWhisper]

Because that's part of being human. Yeah, you know your achievements, you know what they mean to you, but they're worthless. Because if everyone is 'special', then no one is. If everyone is at the top, then they're also at the bottom. There should always be something that not everyone can just log on and do because they 'felt like it'.

That's the whole damn point of a gear treadmill. That's the whole damn point of putting the carrot on the friggin' stick. If you can just grab everything, if you can just reach out and grab that carrot, then the designers are doing something wrong. An MMO that doesn't put things just out of your reach, that doesn't make you put in time and effort, is an MMO doomed to fail.

There is a reason people say vanilla and Pre-2.4 TBC WoW were the best points in the game's history, and it wasn't that 'new mmo' smell.

Nerfing content is fine, but not for the wrong reasons. Nerfing raids because casual X can't invest the time to find a group of people to do it with is a bad reason. If you can't put in the time why do you deserve the same level of gear? THAT is entitlement.

Did you even play in TBC? You could pug just about everything except for maybe the end bosses in the raids, and Sunwell, of course (though plenty of people still farmed the crap out of trash in there). They nerfed those raids both by removing attunements, as well as by doing actual nerfs.

Now it's nearly impossible to pug anything in WoW. And the subscription numbers are showing that strain.

If you can get the carrot on that stick when the content is relevant, then I don't see why the carrot somehow isn't a carrot anymore if someone comes along six months later and gets another version of it.

[Aicasia]

Casuals are a lifeblood to the economy - they feed the needs of hardcore raiders. This disdain for them is really misplaced. You are shooting yourselves in the foot by hating on them. You get your recruits from once-casual raiders that wanted more, and you get most of your materials from them.

I don't have anything against casuals, but if they want the same gear as raiders they need to put in the same time and effort. I have something against laziness and entitlement though.

[Sintram]

Well, the game has horrible latency in showing area of effect attacks and other specials.
Sure, they can be memorized and avoided based on prediction. But I have to ask, how fun is that?
It is one thing to think "oh no, I have to move now or should I finish this cast." vs "I have to move now because in approximately half a second red circle will appear, and If I do not move now I will die"
The latter system currently in place actually makes the game more boring and if any fights are introduced that are truly random, some players will never pass them.
On top of that, if you do not give casuals shinies, they will go to one of the many free to play games out there and spend more in the cash shop on shinies than they ever would on subs to this game.

Games in this day and age need to be very casual accessible to be successful. As a person ages their reflexes deteriorate, and mmo players are increasingly older. They also have the most money, and you do not want to drive them away.

[Cynthis]

I don't have anything against casuals, but if they want the same gear as raiders they need to put in the same time and effort. I have something against laziness and entitlement though.

How about the vast majority that don't have the reflexes, hand-eye coordination and ability to process all the information on screen regardless of how much they practice? Isn't it better they get a chance to do the content after it's become irrelevant to hardcore endgamers rather than the content being completely unused? Take pride in being among the first to do the content and don't begrudge the rest of us.

[Squirrels]

How about the vast majority that don't have the reflexes, hand-eye coordination and ability to process all the information on screen regardless of how much they practice? Isn't it better they get a chance to do the content after it's become irrelevant to hardcore endgamers rather than the content being completely unused? Take pride in being among the first to do the content and don't begrudge the rest of us.

And i want an formula one car from 2008. theres new models anyway so why don't they just sell them for the price of a kia?

[LiadansWhisper]

And i want an formula one car from 2008. theres new models anyway so why don't they just sell them for the price of a kia?

You realize they significantly discount cars once the newer models have come out, right?

[Cynthis]

And i want an formula one car from 2008. theres new models anyway so why don't they just sell them for the price of a kia?

Because they were never mass produced. Look at the price of a mass produced car from 2008 and you'll find it has dropped a LOT in price and MMOs are designed for mass consumption, not as a shiny thing only very few people have.

You and Yoshi alike just don't get it, and apparently never will. Endgame LS's/guilds will always do what's more efficient, if you replace content every 2 months, why should we do it while its hard? We could quit for 2 months, come back, and steamroll it, which obviously isn't fun, so why play? You've made nothing worth doing, nothing has meaning to do it early. If a LS/guild does anything but what is the most efficient then you are wasting your members time and should not exist as a LS/guild, you are effectively attacking your members.

If I could find an LS/FC like the one you describe I might be more inclined to see your point. Your argument about efficiency is a good one in principle but I am not sure I buy it. Everyone knows the new iPhone/car/PC will go down in price 6 month after its out so it's more efficient to wait and buy it later but millions rush to the store the first day. I don't think people are as logical as you give them credit for.

No. It's not about my pride or anything like that, it's about the fact that the content isn't even hard right now. Everyone has their limit, and it's better for everyone if they figure out where it is instead of having everything nerfed down so they don't have to. Honestly I don't see how anyone could find that anything but insulting. They're being patronized, pitied. It's basically them being told they're too bad to continue, so they're being given a major handicap.

I just can't understand the logic of wanting this. You don't need to see all the content in an MMO. You don't need to be able to do everything. It's good to realize and accept your limits.

I'm glad you find the content easy. I am sure not everyone does although I haven't had many problems either so far up to DD. I do accept my limits, that was the crux of my argument but I foresee new endgame content being added every patch/release and not much else except housing. Look at how they've made crafting useless and because I do realize my limitations I have no interest in PvP. So if they basically focus on adding more endgame content and don't nerf the old then there will quickly be huge chunk of content that a lot of people can't do and very little they can do. I don't think that's good for the survival of the game.

[Aicasia]

I'm glad you find the content easy. I am sure not everyone does although I haven't had many problems either so far up to DD. I do accept my limits, that was the crux of my argument but I foresee new endgame content being added every patch/release and not much else except housing. Look at how they've made crafting useless and because I do realize my limitations I have no interest in PvP. So if they basically focus on adding more endgame content and don't nerf the old then there will quickly be huge chunk of content that a lot of people can't do and very little they can do. I don't think that's good for the survival of the game.

That is what the purpose of catch-up content like Zul'Aman was for in WoW. I have nothing against things being more ACCESSIBLE, but they shouldn't be made EASIER for the sake of being made easier, it's all perfectly accessible with minimal investment right now. I'm fine with catchup mechanics as long as they aren't extreme. Zul'Aman was fine, badge gear wasn't. I also don't think they should have removed attunements, but that is irrelevant to my point, so I won't go there. Zul'Aman let individuals and guilds get gear middling somewhere between T5 and T6 to allow newer guilds to catch up and get into BT/Hyjal. If they couldn't progress beyond that then they didn't deserve to be in Sunwell.

It's one thing to make things more accessible so that more people have a chance to see and experience it, it's another entirely to completely ruin the mechanics of the fight so that the guy who never bothered to learn his class could get phat lewt 'just because'. Add catchup content, don't nerf existing content for all the wrong reasons.

Wait, so did they say the hard primal battle content will be nerf once Ultimate or harder version of it is out? Or hard content will get nerf?

Their wording implies that it will be something like Blizzard's system where once the next tier is released the previous tier will receive a nerf. I don't know if it will be the same percentage nerf that Blizzard does or not, but that's what I'm getting from their reply.

[kalfis049]

How about the vast majority that don't have the reflexes, hand-eye coordination and ability to process all the information on screen regardless of how much they practice? Isn't it better they get a chance to do the content after it's become irrelevant to hardcore endgamers rather than the content being completely unused? Take pride in being among the first to do the content and don't begrudge the rest of us.

You'd have to have some sort of crippling illness to not have any of those you listed above.

MMO's are not hard to play. Their not designed to be. All it takes is dedication, and If you can't provide that. Then go away and never come back. Or play a game like WoW, where loot is handed out like mints at a Sonic.