Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[Ehayte]

I just meant currently. We take the gap that Crystal Tower has left and fill it in with Gear that is better than pre-Coil stuff (just take the 3rd highest dungeon and coil gear and average them) and push that weapon damage factor (and also +determination/+accuracy, what-have-you) into WAR damage stats to see what kind of difference it makes. I was really just joking about actually crunching anything, anyhow : D

I was just suggesting a small portion of the huge gap in Coil could be because of CT gear being out of the game currently.

[Rios-Drakoon]

SE should delete our 25%,50%300% of dmg, and intead of that, % of max HP

Bloodbath heals 3%max HP per hit
Sorms Path Heals 10% max HP
Inner Beast 25% max HP


I know the numbers sounds crazy OP, but think about it. PLD can loweer (besides his Shield Stance) by 20% by 40% and by 100% and can Push his Block by 60% (blocking reduce incoming dmg about 20-24%)

So lets say we have a Warrior with 7000max HP
Bloodbath grants him 30sec with each hit 210HP selfheal 90sec CD.
Stormspath grants him all 9sec. a selfheal for 700HP
Innerbeast grant him 1750 selfheal all 15sec.

Lets say you fight a Boss like ifrit, he hugs you with standart hit about 1000-1200, sometimes 2000 and rock does 4500.
The "selfheal" right now ist just a joke to conter These dmg.

[Dhex]

I just meant currently. We take the gap that Crystal Tower has left and fill it in with Gear that is better than pre-Coil stuff (just take the 3rd highest dungeon and coil gear and average them) and push that weapon damage factor (and also +determination/+accuracy, what-have-you) into WAR damage stats to see what kind of difference it makes. I was really just joking about actually crunching anything, anyhow : D

I was just suggesting a small portion of the huge gap in Coil could be because of CT gear being out of the game currently.

AF2 is currently available and on-par with Allagan which is from Bahamut's Coil. Coil > CT

CT gear isn't likely to make a huge difference as it's most likely on-par with DL.

[wlakiz]

Words

So you neglected to take into account of Unchained and Vengeance during tanking? What about enmity/damage against multiple mobs? Overpowered damage vs Circle of Scorn

[Kitru]

SE should delete our 25%,50%300% of dmg, and intead of that, % of max HP

Unless bosses continue to deal the same percentage of total hp with their attacks, it's going to simply scale worse. All you're doing by doing that is transferring the existing self-heal scaling from Str/Det/Acc/Crit all on to Vit. The same problems would still exist.

What needs to happen is either the +healing we receive increased (since incoming healing *does* scale with incoming damage) or have out self heals restore hp based upon the amount of damage take over the last X seconds. If we're going to have self heals, they need to scale with *incoming damage*, not gear.

[Kitru]

So you neglected to take into account of Unchained and Vengeance during tanking? What about enmity/damage against multiple mobs? Overpowered damage vs Circle of Scorn

Unchained is a *terrible* thing to use as a WAR: it eats your Wrath stacks while simultaneously preventing you from using Inner Beast. If you're using Unchained, you're reducing your mitigation.

Vengeance is a wonky ability because the damage it provides is dependent upon taking physical damage. As such, Stoneskin and Adloquium reduce its value. On top of that, it's on a really long CD.

Assuming 2.5 seconds between incoming attacks (doesn't happen in my experience; bosses tend to use magic/cast time attacks often enough that the incoming rate goes significantly), you'd be getting 6 ticks off of Vengeance every 48 GCDs. At 50 potency per tick, that's 6.25 additional baseline potency/GCD. On top of that, I'm not sure that Vengeance can crit, which could reduce the value of it further. The only time you'll really get a lot out of Vengeance is when you're AoE tanking with physical damage targets.

AoE damage and enmity are a more complex question than you might think. The PLD AoEs are effectively free: CoS has no cost and Flash costs MP. Overpower, on the other hand, is expensive as hell. If you use it more than 2-3 times, you're completely demolishing your TP, which means you're going to have empty GCDs when punching the boss later on. On top of that, Overpower deals laughable damage compared to DPS AoEs and has a much smaller area of effect.

This is further complicated by the vagaries of Flash's enmity generation. Supposedly, it doesn't scale with gear, is unaffected by Shield Oath, and all sorts of other factors that would render it effectively worthless. Getting answers to those questions would go a fair way towards putting some numbers down.

There are a *lot* more balancing factors associated with AoE enmity/damage than there are for single target damage/enmity. The reason I don't do the math for them is largely because it's a *lot* more math involved coupled with a *lot* of missing information.

[Illya]

Hey guys, I'm pretty new to the game and have no desire discussing the technical aspects of each class. My question is, is yoshi referring to the current state of warriors or a future patched version? I rolled a warrior but after all the talk I see on how inferior they are to paladins for end game tanking, I'm considering a re-roll. I love playing as war but don't wanna waste my time if no one wants them end game.

The reality is that Yoshi is being intentionally mysterious with his comments on future class balance. Which makes sense, what do you think this community would do if he just came out and said "We're buffing this class to Godtier status in one month!"? So we'll find out what happens to Warrior the day it happens and no sooner.

[CurlyBruce]

Unless bosses continue to deal the same percentage of total hp with their attacks, it's going to simply scale worse. The same problems would still exist.

Just like to point out that having our self heals scale based on Max HP would scale better. Assuming you get hit for 1000 per hit with 5000 HP you are taking 20% of your HP per hit. Using his example Inner Beast would heal 25% OR 1250. Now say you geared up some more for VIT and your max HP is now 7000 and you still get hit for 1000 because your overall mitigation hasn't changed. The monster is doing less % of your max HP per hit now while your self heals still scale off your new max HP. So you are receiving less HP% damage from the monster while increasing your HP% recovered through heals. Monster would only hit for ~14.3% of your Max HP while Inner Beast still heals for 25% which is now 1750.

Just by sheer virtue of increasing your max HP you are lowering the %HP damage dealt by a monster.

[Derza]

Just like to point out that having our self heals scale based on Max HP would scale better. Assuming you get hit for 1000 per hit with 5000 HP you are taking 20% of your HP per hit. Using his example Inner Beast would heal 25% OR 1250. Now say you geared up some more for VIT and your max HP is now 7000 and you still get hit for 1000 because your overall mitigation hasn't changed. The monster is doing less % of your max HP per hit now while your self heals still scale off your new max HP. So you are receiving less HP% damage from the monster while increasing your HP% recovered through heals. Monster would only hit for ~14.3% of your Max HP while Inner Beast still heals for 25% which is now 1750.

Just by sheer virtue of increasing your max HP you are lowering the %HP damage dealt by a monster.

Its the same thing as you can do now... Increase your damage output increases your self-heals, the only difference is you are basing the healing on max HP and the % of damage a boss does to you. You are still taking the same amount of damage no matter what the % of you total HP it may be. So as far as incoming heals are effected its a wash...(sure your way your Max HP gives you better self-heals so now you are 100% vit dependent vs being damage dependent, still does not change the fact that you are still stat dependent and your mitigation only scales with your stats where paladins mitigation scales with boss damage)

They really just need to give warriors +25% healing (either by adding a 10-15% base% heals on defiance and leaving wrath the same or moving it all(+25%) to defiance so we can at least start at the same point as paladins (as far as survivability from tank stance).

[CurlyBruce]

...

It's not the same. Increasing your damage sacrifices increasing your max HP. (Speccing STR instead of VIT, STR Accessories etc.) Increasing your damage does not reduce the total %HP loss you take from boss attacks it only increase the %HP you heal from self heals. Example you are VIT stacking and have 5k HP and bosses hit you for 1k. You take 20% HP per hit. Your Inner Beast does 900 for 18% of your max HP. Now you change and start stacking STR. Your HP is now 4k and bosses still hit you for 25% of your max HP. Your inner beast now heals for 1000 for 25% of max HP. You increased your %HP return but also increased your %HP damage recieved. You are now also more vulnerable to large "1-shot" type moves because you sacrificed HP for more sustain.

If our self heals scaled based on max HP you could simultaneously increase your sustain while decreasing the % of HP damage you receive. Would actually give Thrill of Battle some utility besides just a snap heal. With Thrill of battles HP buff up your other self heals would increase as well. Would be like our own Convalescence.