Square Enix Revises Earnings Forecasts For Major Loss

[Augury]

I agree with this very much. Although FFXIII is probably my least favorite FF title, it really isn't that bad a game. Of all the PS3 games I bought in 2010, FFXIII is probably the only one I feel like playing again. And I will no doubt buy FFXIII-2, I will just use the money saved from FFXIV being free.

The only reason the Chrono Trigger series never got further then Cross was because of bad sales (http://www.rpgsite.net/news/342/squa...-buy-more.html). No doubt the FF series would have followed same destiny if they weren't succesful.

So, to say FFXIII is a MASSIVE FAILURE (which is often said) is just wrong.

Aye, but most of the response to my post was taken out of context. While XIII was a financial success, the formula was just bad juju, and as a standalone FF, it's best left as is. Until now, X was the ugly baby arguably, and VI before that. In retrospect, it's easy for many of us to enjoy VI or X in-spite of some of the things we disliked. I just think the attempts to refurbish and promote it are a good cause for the roughly 150mil USD ding in SquEnix's pocket (even moreso than XIV bombing). :P Ofcourse having an opinion means it is bound to get taken out of proportion on the interwebs.

[Aizm]

Aye, but most of the response to my post was taken out of context. While XIII was a financial success, the formula was just bad juju, and as a standalone FF, it's best left as is. Until now, X was the ugly baby arguably, and VI before that. In retrospect, it's easy for many of us to enjoy VI or X in-spite of some of the things we disliked. I just think the attempts to refurbish and promote it are a good cause for the roughly 150mil USD ding in SquEnix's pocket (even moreso than XIV bombing). :P Ofcourse having an opinion means it is bound to get taken out of proportion on the interwebs.

What was out of context about the responses? This thread is discussing SE's financial report. You mentioned that is was XIII and XIV's fault. And a multitude of people made it quite clear it was not XIII's fault. You admit it was a financial success, and it is in fact one of the best selling FF games in franchise history. I'm going to go out on a wild guess and say that means a lot of FF fans liked it (hint: people who disliked it are way more vocal than the 'silent majority' that do like it) So what's wrong with expanding on the title?

What really intrigues me about your response though is that you think VI and X have bad reps? I can't say I've ever heard these games bashed. Quite frankly I think any die hard FF fan thinks VI to be one of the very best. Besides XIV (and you can argue XIII I guess), I think XII was the most recent game to get a fair bashing when it was released. Retrospectively though, I think most people have revised their opinion on XII.

[Augury]

What was out of context about the responses? This thread is discussing SE's financial report. You mentioned that is was XIII and XIV's fault. And a multitude of people made it quite clear it was not XIII's fault. You admit it was a financial success, and it is in fact one of the best selling FF games in franchise history. I'm going to go out on a wild guess and say that means a lot of FF fans liked it (hint: people who disliked it are way more vocal than the 'silent majority' that do like it) So what's wrong with expanding on the title?

What really intrigues me about your response though is that you think VI and X have bad reps? I can't say I've ever heard these games bashed. Quite frankly I think any die hard FF fan thinks VI to be one of the very best. Besides XIV (and you can argue XIII I guess), I think XII was the most recent game to get a fair bashing when it was released. Retrospectively though, I think most people have revised their opinion on XII.

I disagree, because XIII sold well only on the basis of having Final Fantasy in it's title, but most people I have discussed it with also found no redeeming quality, not the "loud minority". The hit to the company is probably a result of the numerous developments going on, but trying to promote an idea which didn't work. In this respect, my opinion WAS blown out of proportion by the concept that because XIII was horrible, IT was the cause of the dent. I'm saying that the dent is probably a result of trying to resell what was a pretty horrible game.

VI had a very awkward response when it came out because it was good, but very awkward in concept. It laid the framework for the Playstation age of FF games, and was without a doubt one of the best SNES games in the library. The awkward nature of the narrative was pretty deviant from the other even numbered sequels (which were all linear RPGs as opposed to job mix n' matching). X got heat for having some of the best (and worst) characters to date, as well as a narrative which tried to tackle mature issues in very immature ways. Most FF games get the ringer when they are released, but even the ugly babies are usually enjoyable (even if more to some, and less to others). XIII and XIV just seem to be the first games which are viewed as horrible by the MAJORITY. XIII can't be patched, and the lackluster characters cannot be ret-conned.

[SuzakuCMX]

I disagree, because XIII sold well only on the basis of having Final Fantasy in it's title, but most people I have discussed it with also found no redeeming quality, not the "loud minority". The hit to the company is probably a result of the numerous developments going on, but trying to promote an idea which didn't work. In this respect, my opinion WAS blown out of proportion by the concept that because XIII was horrible, IT was the cause of the dent. I'm saying that the dent is probably a result of trying to resell what was a pretty horrible game.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/plays...l-fantasy-xiii

No, you're wrong. Stop debating now, it's spamming the thread.

[Ostia]

http://www.metacritic.com/game/plays...l-fantasy-xiii

No, you're wrong. Stop debating now, it's spamming the thread.

The game was horrible, and i don't care what metacritic has to say, for in this forums is a card used when is convenient, when used to bash or argue that FFXIV is bad, the defense force comes out and say: Reviews are biased, they dint play more than X hours, yadayadayada. But when it is used to defend FFXIII: Its the word of jesus........ how dare you go againts it ?

[SuzakuCMX]

The game was horrible, and i don't care what metacritic has to say, for in this forums is a card used when is convenient, when used to bash or argue that FFXIV is bad, the defense force comes out and say: Reviews are biased, they dint play more than X hours, yadayadayada. But when it is used to defend FFXIII: Its the word of jesus........ how dare you go againts it ?

Let's see, how about "it's good" and "it's bad" are objective opinions, but "it was successful" and "most people hated it" are not? Metacritic gives a clear cut evidence that it was in fact a critical and financial success.

[Cairdeas]

Aye, but most of the response to my post was taken out of context. While XIII was a financial success, the formula was just bad juju, and as a standalone FF, it's best left as is. Until now, X was the ugly baby arguably, and VI before that. In retrospect, it's easy for many of us to enjoy VI or X in-spite of some of the things we disliked. I just think the attempts to refurbish and promote it are a good cause for the roughly 150mil USD ding in SquEnix's pocket (even moreso than XIV bombing). :P Ofcourse having an opinion means it is bound to get taken out of proportion on the interwebs.

I dont know what Formula you are refering too because FFXIII follows the same one that all Final Fantasy's follow.

1. An Evil Entity is controlling the population through fear and violence.
2. A small group of individuals arises who believes that things have become too extreme and action is necessary to save/bring peace to the world.
3. The Game starts with you watching the first members of this group come together and fight against the Evil Entity/Big Bad. Usually after seeing something the big bad did against the population.
4. At first you only have access to one or two of the main characters, as you progress you slowly meet other members of the cast. Sometimes the cast resplits up and the story arch two ways to be diverged again later.
5. At first you are limited with how much you can advance your character until you get certain storyline points finished.
6. Linear storyline progression with limited access to the world map results in the player being directed directly into an encounter with the Evil Entity.
7. Once a majority of the cast is found the Evil Entity is directly encountered and fought. At this point either the Evil Entity is believed Defeated, and the puppet master who was controlling it steps forward. Or the Evil Entity fleas battle to be killed by the True Evil Entity who takes over as the villain for the rest of the game.
8. After these events occur the Cast is exiled, thrown out, or runs away to regroup.
9. The last few members of the cast come into play, the world map is accessible but only partially. Some areas are blocked off til a storyline even but for the most part a huge chunk of the world is now explorable.
10. After spending time exploring the world map eventually the story pulls the cast back to the villain and another encounter happens. After which the world changes. Cities when revisited are different, npc's are different and or offer new tasks to perform.
11. The final Dungeon becomes accessible and some areas of the world map are blocked off while new ones open. The new areas are usually designed to help a player train the characters and aquire epic loot before the final boss. And most world map areas now have stronger monsters replacing the monsters fought the first half of the game.
12. The cast goes and explores the final dungeon and defeats the final boss. A lot of Questions are answered but Events happen that raise more questions then answer for a lot of people and the game ends.


How did this Formula work in FFXIII?


1. Cocoon is being run by people who are controlled by the fal'Cie. They created Cocoon to hide from Pulse as they found it inferior and they wanted to create a Utopia. To help control population both in growth and obedience they Claim that individuals marked by the fal'Cie from Pulse are evil and kick them out of Cocoon or kill them. Some of the fal'Cie do mark people and give them tasks they must figure out and accomplish or they will turn to Crystal.
2. Lightning and Sazh Witness the event that cause panic and demands of the entire city of Bodhum to be expelled from Cocoon. Lightnings sister was amongst the people who were claimed to be needing purged. Lightning attempts a rescue and the plot starts.
3. Sazh, Lighting, Snow, and Hope all slowly progress through the story being hunted by Psicom and trying to save others from the Purge.
4. Sazh, Lighting, Snow, Hope and Vanille all split in and out of being a whole group while trying to get to Lightnings Sister.
5. Characters do not gain any power until they encounter Anima. They can now advance on the Crystarium Board to gain new abilities but sections of the board are not passible until you complete certain story tasks.
6. After defeating Anima the players are forced to explore Cocoon and try and get into the control center for the whole place.
7. Fang Joins the cast and the players encounter Bartandelous the games main Villain who reveals his plans for the entire world.
8. After defeating Bartandelous the players escape Cocoon and find the world of Pulse.
9. The Summons are slowly introduced to all characters and eventually the entire cast is assembled along with their assigned summon characters.
10. After Exploring Pulse the players encounter Bartandelous again and defeat him yet again.
11. The tasks available on Pulse all unlock and a lot of the monsters change. Access to the Final Dungeon becomes available and you can explore small parts of Cocoon again.
12. The cast encounters Bartandelous one last time in the Final Dungeon and he reveals he was just a pawn for Orphans rebirth. Fang becomes Ragnarok and defeats Orphan and Fang and Vanille "Save" Cocoon by building a spire to hold it in the air with their energy before becoming crystals once again. Game ends.

[Elexia]

Let's see, how about "it's good" and "it's bad" are objective opinions, but "it was successful" and "most people hated it" are not? Metacritic gives a clear cut evidence that it was in fact a critical and financial success.

Ostia is yet another troll, don't take him too seriously. He knows that everyone else knows XIII was a success, like it or hate it, it was successful and the American and European folks had 4 months to NOT buy the game as there were info and spoilers and whathaveyou everywhere between december 2009 and march 2010.

[Aizm]

I disagree, because XIII sold well only on the basis of having Final Fantasy in it's title, but most people I have discussed it with also found no redeeming quality, not the "loud minority". The hit to the company is probably a result of the numerous developments going on, but trying to promote an idea which didn't work. In this respect, my opinion WAS blown out of proportion by the concept that because XIII was horrible, IT was the cause of the dent. I'm saying that the dent is probably a result of trying to resell what was a pretty horrible game.

VI had a very awkward response when it came out because it was good, but very awkward in concept. It laid the framework for the Playstation age of FF games, and was without a doubt one of the best SNES games in the library. The awkward nature of the narrative was pretty deviant from the other even numbered sequels (which were all linear RPGs as opposed to job mix n' matching). X got heat for having some of the best (and worst) characters to date, as well as a narrative which tried to tackle mature issues in very immature ways. Most FF games get the ringer when they are released, but even the ugly babies are usually enjoyable (even if more to some, and less to others). XIII and XIV just seem to be the first games which are viewed as horrible by the MAJORITY. XIII can't be patched, and the lackluster characters cannot be ret-conned.

No, the majority of people do not find it to be horrible. The score board (sales) doesn't lie. You can presume on you opinion all you want that people don't like it, but that simply does not make it true.

If you care to refute, please give us some tangible evidence besides your usual rhetoric of "its horrible"...

[Augury]

The narrative delivery is the same as it's been since the first game, but the overarching depth of character and plot device falls pretty shallow. Or to make a simple observation, compare Lightning to Cecil from IV. The characters are very similar, but Cecil is far more interesting because the difficulty in his quest isn't portrayed like a poorly written TV drama. They both learn to become a hero, for the sake of loving someone else, but Cecil's story lacks an excess of lingo to make things sound more cryptic. This allows IV to come around as much less convoluted, and allows Cecil to achieve true depth of character in spite of spending a good chunk of the game chasing Golbez around for the simplistic want to rescue his friends. Cecil's party even breaks up several times over, but each time is a meaningful plot-twist for the next inch of his journey. Lightning's charms on the otherhand are mostly superficial, and obvious... She's a woman protagonist, she has a gunblade, she summons Odin, and she's essentially a Paladin. Cecil develops to embrace something he never had the confidence to comprehend wielding (making a sort of twist of FFII), but the characterization displays a dramatic shift in maturity and wisdom... whereas Lightning really doesn't get that from embarking on the same essential quest.

Click
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Both are polls with very mixed results concerning XIII, or in the case of the second one the probability of them playing the sequel. Both of these polls had over 100 participants. It's simple, tangible proof as to how people are accepting the game. Some like it, some don't, which for a franchise so powerful is NOT good news on a 50.7% favorable level or a 36.1% unfavorable level. While no FF game usually gets consensus, the margin for XIII has taken a rather large slide for the worst.