Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[C-croft]

People shouldn't be raiding Coil in this level of gear honestly, since Crystal Tower should have been released, but it wasnt. Would this still be a huge discussion if CT was out? If Warriors were geared up through CT I bet they would have far less deaths in Coil due to massive damage spikes...but go on and call for nerfs across the board on another class while others seemingly are able to play this class.

I think the real argument is that people are raiding coil with PLD MT much easier than WAR MT now. I recall Hiir stating WAR MT is not viable in the later turns. If PLD can do it, why can't WAR?

[Duelle]

- Why is it a bad thing to have one tank preferred for something, as long as the other is preferred for another thing?
- Why is an off-tank specialist inferior if they are superior at off-tanking?

Loaded question, but fine. Because a tank is a tank is a tank. And when one is less of a tank than another (which is what "off-tank specialist" boils down to), you run into representation problems and balance problems, not to mention idiotic labels and stigmas. A PLD can off-tank just fine and still mitigate damage better than a WAR, so whatever pipe dream you have about WAR being an "off-tank specialist" is moot.

Both jobs are vying for the same role, and as such should be interchangeable while being mechanically different enough to have their own identity. Wangstrong's post is pretty much spot on in that regard.

[oceanlord]

most healer loves PLD </3
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ior-or-Paladin

[Rios-Drakoon]

Yesterday Garuda

PLD was MT i was Add Tank, fine with me.

After some AoEs one Healder Died... the other Healer got NO instant Raise..
PLD Says: easy you can raise him.. he put his 40%dmg reduce on, and the healer could easy raise the other one, and we killed Garuda.

With Warrior as MT NOT POSSIBLE.

Yes, maybee Warrior can Tank Coil, yes after Crystal Tower anyway.
Yes Warrior can Tank Titan HM
yes
yes
yes

But ist alot easier with Paladin, and thats the MAIN POINT!!!!!
Aslong something will be easier with Tank A, Tank B always will be just a half ass sucker second class Tank

[SatrinaKali]

I think the real argument is that people are raiding coil with PLD MT much easier than WAR MT now. I recall Hiir stating WAR MT is not viable in the later turns. If PLD can do it, why can't WAR?

Because of the fact that PLD take less dmg by default, they don't need as much gear as WAR do. And since Crystal Tower was meant as a bridge to doing Coil, it allows PLD who are less gear dependent to jump the bridge, while WAR jumps and then sprains it's leg halfway across.

Yesterday Garuda
PLD was MT i was Add Tank, fine with me.
After some AoEs one Healder Died... the other Healer got NO instant Raise..
PLD Says: easy you can raise him.. he put his 40%dmg reduce on, and the healer could easy raise the other one, and we killed Garuda.

With Warrior as MT NOT POSSIBLE.

Sounds like the healer wasnt paying attention then and should probably learn to dodge mechanics correctly. That's like saying "Healer died on Ifrit to a charge/plume and since I was WAR the other healer couldn't rez him "

Loaded question, but fine. Because a tank is a tank is a tank.

Not if you construct encounters around both tanks. Make a boss that hits very hard but only hits so often? Get a tank that does well for that (big HP pool) Have a boss that hits very fast and does medium dmg, get a tank that has really good mitigation. etc etc. Instead of crying for both classes to be exactly the same, you should instead be asking for encounters to bring out the abilities of both tanks separately. I know everyone wants to be the All-Star 100% of the time, but sometimes you gotta sit back and tank adds or w/e.

[Ehayte]

Both jobs are vying for the same role, and as such should be interchangeable while being mechanically different enough to have their own identity. Wangstrong's post is pretty much spot on in that regard.

Yeah, so, I don't get why you think that I think that WARs are amazing off-tanks right now. They need to be fixed, unless we are all missing something. "Off tank specialist" would mean someone that has special abilities that allow them to tank multiple, or specific, mobs with greater efficiency. Not someone who isn't quite as good as the other tank, so they are subjugated to a lessor role.

[Ehayte]

Not if you construct encounters around both tanks. Make a boss that hits very hard but only hits so often? Get a tank that does well for that (big HP pool) Have a boss that hits very fast and does medium dmg, get a tank that has really good mitigation. etc etc. Instead of crying for both classes to be exactly the same, you should instead be asking for encounters to bring out the abilities of both tanks separately. I know everyone wants to be the All-Star 100% of the time, but sometimes you gotta sit back and tank adds or w/e.

Thank you for your succinct verbalization of what I was attempting to iterate earlier : D

[Duelle]

Not if you construct encounters around both tanks. Make a boss that hits very hard but only hits so often? Get a tank that does well for that (big HP pool) Have a boss that hits very fast and does medium dmg, get a tank that has really good mitigation. etc etc. Instead of crying for both classes to be exactly the same, you should instead be asking for encounters to bring out the abilities of both tanks separately.

Who said anything about both being exactly the same? I don't think any of the WAR proponents are asking for it to be turned into a second paladin.

As for the attempted "encounter design" argument, all that does is lead to classisms and is also a short-term solution. I'm under no delusion that WAR and PLD will be the only members of the tank roster, and expect more jobs to join us as the game ages. With that in mind, you cannot split them by niche performance, but instead by mechanics while attaining the same results. This means the tanks stand out on their own while also being equally capable of tanking HM Leviathan, HM Ramuh and whatever additions to BCoB and CT we'll get. An application of "bring the player, not the class", if you will.

[Faction]

Not if you construct encounters around both tanks. Make a boss that hits very hard but only hits so often? Get a tank that does well for that (big HP pool) Have a boss that hits very fast and does medium dmg, get a tank that has really good mitigation. etc etc. Instead of crying for both classes to be exactly the same, you should instead be asking for encounters to bring out the abilities of both tanks separately. I know everyone wants to be the All-Star 100% of the time, but sometimes you gotta sit back and tank adds or w/e.

The effective hp of both tanks is practically identical. 2 Paladin is > Paladin+Warrior in any situation.

Hey just a suggestion, play the game. You are yet another forum theoryking.

[Kitru]

Not if you construct encounters around both tanks. Make a boss that hits very hard but only hits so often? Get a tank that does well for that (big HP pool) Have a boss that hits very fast and does medium dmg, get a tank that has really good mitigation. etc etc. Instead of crying for both classes to be exactly the same, you should instead be asking for encounters to bring out the abilities of both tanks separately. I know everyone wants to be the All-Star 100% of the time, but sometimes you gotta sit back and tank adds or w/e.

You don't really understand math, do you? WAR doesn't have any real hp advantage. The 20% DR that a PLD gets acts as an effective 25% higher max hp because a WAR takes 25% more damage than a PLD does. The only way that a WAR has an advantage over a PLD is if there is boss damage that completely ignores all damage reduction, which would necessitate ignoring tank CDs as well. A boss would have to *ignore* what PLD gets in order to make what WAR has be useful.

The only hp advantage that WAR has is in *slightly* higher base hp, and I mean "slightly" as in "5 Vit". This hp advantage actually shrinks as you get better gear because the percent advantage lowers.