Market Boards need to work like FFXI AH

[Alezar]

I agree with the OP.

Not to mention, I think a good chunk of this is an awareness issue. Everyone keeps talking about the whole thing working out and things reaching a equilibrium but that takes people caring and paying attention to the value of a item which the price history is available but no one uses it.

A return to Xi's system actually enforces the perceived value of an item. When you look up an item to sell, there's no way to tell the real value. You get high amounts and really low amounts. Most people like laugh at the guy selling the item 2k more than everyone else but maybe he was on point and actually received buyers before the wave of undercutters rolled in effectively destroying that price point. No one knows he made sales at that price immediately either. They just know the last few people people went in a 500 less. Another person when in 1000 less. And the only real constant? You either sell your junk at that price or lower or GTFO.

The real value of the item diminishes and never returns because all the new sellers that are now fighting at 50% the original value feel reinforced by their prices simply because it sold quickly and they got cash. There's no reason for the buyers not to have a field day with it either. Now the peeps who were buying the item at 4k-ish regularly are like.."Sweet" and that's the end of it. Let's say the buyer wanted to be crazy and help stablize the price they can't. They could attempt flipping the item but that'd only be reasonable in certain situations (less suppliers and few stacks of the item). If they wanted to be a Good Guy and simply bought from the seller that had the item at the appropriate price it doesn't show the rest of the community that the item is worth that amount. It disappears and we'd assume he bailed or caved in to the undercutting. If it's still there, everyone wonders what's wrong with him.

It's in this case XI's system would thrive better. We'd know the most an item sold for and how well it sold at that price. We'd see the last time an item sold for a stupid high price and how long it's been sitting on the shelf since. When people go to sell they'd get to see how much they -could- be making on the items and not immediately looking at the bottom line to undercut it because they know if they didn't, it would never sell otherwise. Consistent prices showing up would create the equilibrium range everyone is talking about because sellers would know from X amount to Y amount this item always sells. Undercutters who went too low get to pat themselves on the back when they noticed they're the only ones who got paid half the value on an item. Most forms of undercutting would be masked by those who have grown used to the price range gap and always spend that amount. While promoting to the undercutter that went 1k lower that the value of the item is still the already common price range.

Right now, it's some horrible reverse ebay style bidding and it's horrid.

[xbiggixx]

I agree, something needs to be done about this..I've been selling carbonized grade 3 matter for a few days at 531 a piece..everything is going dandy so I decided to gather more. The next day I log in I see stacks of 5 at 200 ea! Now I'm stuck with 1.5k of this stuff an almost running out of Gil..my only source of Gil..gone

[Suirieko]

I am giving this my full support. The the market has been nothing but an undercutting party. Seeing price dropping as much as 50% per day is making it ridiculously hard to make gil as of late, with having two crafts, as well as two gathering classes to 50.

The blind bidding won't effectively stop the undercutting, but it will slow it down by a great deal.

It is incredibly discouraging, as a crafter/gatherer, to list items at 8K and come back and see that some other jackass put up 10 items, at 1 each for 4K, just cause they couldn't wait to sell their stuff.

[Vili]

They need to make it so prices can't fluctuate so wildly in a given week.
I place Item A on the MB for 5,000 Gil
Player X can only place Item A on the AH for 200 Gil higher or lower.
Next week rolls around and if the lowest price for the item at that time has climbed to 5,100 Gil then it can only climb as high as 5,300 Gil or as low as 4,900 Gil.
To start this they would have to make an average for all items sold in the past however many weeks the decide and return everything to peoples retainers. So if the price for something averaged that 5,000 Gil, then that would be the starting point for the new system.
This system DOES have the possibility of driving prices up as the weeks go on. Prices can only climb so high till it gets to the point where people say no to the price and get it themselves thus driving the price back down. Supply and Demand.
HQ items can operate separately from NQ.
Something I just thought up on the spot with very little thought while I wait on maintenance.

[Arbitrage]

The reason people undercut is to sell items, I reprice my items everytime 5-10 things sell, just because I want to sell, and I want to sell now, but I have noticed many times when the price has drops 40% just because one person wants to sell "more quickly", the thing I don't understand is how 100 less than me will sell slower than 3000 less than me.. XD

When i reprice, i drop 100g under current, but when u drop 5k or something like that, it just feeds into others thinking the higher values are super high and the lowest is the real price that most pay, it confuses a lot of buyers I would imagine into thinking that since one is this one, everything should be, and sets in turn a chain of events where entire sets of items drop by 40%, and when I see a drop of that much I just pull the item and store it until it will be back at the rate it was previously.

[MistressAthena]

I agree with the OP.

Not to mention, I think a good chunk of this is an awareness issue. Everyone keeps talking about the whole thing working out and things reaching a equilibrium but that takes people caring and paying attention to the value of a item which the price history is available but no one uses it.

A return to Xi's system actually enforces the perceived value of an item. When you look up an item to sell, there's no way to tell the real value. You get high amounts and really low amounts. Most people like laugh at the guy selling the item 2k more than everyone else but maybe he was on point and actually received buyers before the wave of undercutters rolled in effectively destroying that price point. No one knows he made sales at that price immediately either. They just know the last few people people went in a 500 less. Another person when in 1000 less. And the only real constant? You either sell your junk at that price or lower or GTFO.

The real value of the item diminishes and never returns because all the new sellers that are now fighting at 50% the original value feel reinforced by their prices simply because it sold quickly and they got cash. There's no reason for the buyers not to have a field day with it either. Now the peeps who were buying the item at 4k-ish regularly are like.."Sweet" and that's the end of it. Let's say the buyer wanted to be crazy and help stablize the price they can't. They could attempt flipping the item but that'd only be reasonable in certain situations (less suppliers and few stacks of the item). If they wanted to be a Good Guy and simply bought from the seller that had the item at the appropriate price it doesn't show the rest of the community that the item is worth that amount. It disappears and we'd assume he bailed or caved in to the undercutting. If it's still there, everyone wonders what's wrong with him.

It's in this case XI's system would thrive better. We'd know the most an item sold for and how well it sold at that price. We'd see the last time an item sold for a stupid high price and how long it's been sitting on the shelf since. When people go to sell they'd get to see how much they -could- be making on the items and not immediately looking at the bottom line to undercut it because they know if they didn't, it would never sell otherwise. Consistent prices showing up would create the equilibrium range everyone is talking about because sellers would know from X amount to Y amount this item always sells. Undercutters who went too low get to pat themselves on the back when they noticed they're the only ones who got paid half the value on an item. Most forms of undercutting would be masked by those who have grown used to the price range gap and always spend that amount. While promoting to the undercutter that went 1k lower that the value of the item is still the already common price range.

Right now, it's some horrible reverse ebay style bidding and it's horrid.

Very well put

[bwalker36]

I'm sorry but I don't want to be blindly bidding. I want to know what is currently selling for, has sold at and what people are bidding. The XI style did not do that. The current one is missing the bid side of things.

The problem with undercutters now is there is just an enormous supply of everything and no one understands the true value of it. Now undercutting by 5k is silly unless you are in dire need of funds but people savy should take advantage. When I was selling all my grade 1 carbonized. I would hold the marekt fairly steady at 30gil. When weirdos dropped it to 15gil I would buy it all and relist barring there were not extreme amounts.

I do agree that the undercutting is really annoying but as supply dwindles less mats/items are in circulation it will get better. I however do not want to be in the dark about the true value of an item. I want all aspects just like I would in the markets today, so that I can make gil off improperly priced items.

[MistressAthena]

I'm sorry but I don't want to be blindly bidding. I want to know what is currently selling for, has sold at and what people are bidding. The XI style did not do that. The current one is missing the bid side of things.

The problem with undercutters now is there is just an enormous supply of everything and no one understands the true value of it. Now undercutting by 5k is silly unless you are in dire need of funds but people savy should take advantage. When I was selling all my grade 1 carbonized. I would hold the marekt fairly steady at 30gil. When weirdos dropped it to 15gil I would buy it all and relist barring there were not extreme amounts.

I do agree that the undercutting is really annoying but as supply dwindles less mats/items are in circulation it will get better. I however do not want to be in the dark about the true value of an item. I want all aspects just like I would in the markets today, so that I can make gil off improperly priced items.

How is my current list being "In the dark" about an items "true" value? My example clearly shows cobalt cuirass is worth about 5-7k, and it held it steady at that.

Bidding blindly for an item within that price range is absolutely no different ultimately, except it stops undercutting. When things are fluctuating wildly on every item like they are now, there is no way to tell the true value of something.

[bwalker36]

I'm in the dark because I don't know what your selling it for. I shouldn't have to guess at the lowest price or pay you more than your asking because of a lack of info. Not to mention even in a blind system if I want money quick I'm going to sell it way below the average price shown in your history. And if a savy buyer is looking for a good deal he is going to start his bids lower and work his way up to what he wants to pay.

Having all the info out in the open will create the most efficient market. And unlike wall street there is not going to be much insider information. So as markets evolve prices will average out. I don't believe hiding information is a good thing for the market, especially for the buyer. Your idea might help reduce undercutters but it also might not.... To be continued

[bwalker36]

Regardless if they are going to change it why not put in a system that allows you to actually offer at x, and bid at Y. That with a history allows markets to react easily and effeciently. You pair the matching orders at a FIFO. If bidders refuse to budge then sellers need to reduce prices to the market level. If Sellers say hell no were not going lower than that buyers must come up. You will get undercutters who want to move things fast and they will immediately get paired with the highest bid order but they are only charged what it was offered at and the market can take a turn down or up as supply changes.

Also appreciate you haveing an actual convo instead yelling like most people