What is marauder's role?

[Grundy]

I'm assuming at level 38 you don't have the intimidation trait and you definitely don't have Storm's path yet. You should pop Warmonger to get initial hate THEN hit Defender to boost your enmity then use Brutal Swing/Brandish/Disorientate and finish with a Storms Path you will have their attention, believe me. Just pray there is a CON near that is good at their role.

Why would you need to do crowd control in Behest anyway? Most mobs are in pairs and if there are other mobs attacking then you ignore them until their names turn red. Doing anything else is just pissing away perfectly good SP.

[Peregrine]

"we shined when..." No, ya really didn't. I was the mage healing ya. Didn't care who did it honestly. Lancer, pug, marauder...you were the same to me. Now that I'm playing marauder, that isn't changing. Marauder isn't for crowd control. Marauder can't control a crowd.

To even be considered a viable "crowd control" job, Marauders would need the equivalent of:
R40 petrification move. AoE, circular. 8 meters. Recast 3 minutes.
R30 Knockout. Render enemy unconscious. Singular attack. Recast: 1 minute.
R50 Berserk. Render surrounding enemies only able to attack. Recast: 3 minutes.
R25 stun. Just straight stun. The real stun. The black mage stun. Not a weaponskill stun. Not a reactionary stun. Stun stun.

I've tried to use Iron tempest about six times. I think it's missed most of the mobs 5 times out of the six in a crowd situation. Why do I want to use it so badly? Because conal AoE on a meleer is like a cup with no bottom. It's useless. The mobs are NEVER positioned right, and if you position yourself right...oh sorry you lost your AoE ability. Wait for steadf...op no the mobs moved again sorry.

Marauder reminds me of thief. On paper "it was for hate control" annnnd no it honestly wasn't. It was for TH swap at the end of the fight. For 8 years. That job was inexorably tied to the pigeonholing sneak attack and trick attack bull****. Marauder's steadfast looks like the same concept. Staying still will always be more of a punishment than a benefit, just as requiring positioning as thief was always more of a pain than a bonus. And eventually the population discarded thief as a viable job. Don't want to see marauder become lolmarauder just because people are sticking to guns that just aren't gonna work. As a long term, primary, die-hard meleer in XI for years...this ain't gonna work if this is how bad we are at our paper job.

You can say I suck and that it's me all you want. In the end the population has already decided that no, marauders aren't for crowd control. You will never be invited for that role, because your abilities can't be relied upon to do that job.

You might be able to rally the base like we're some lame republican convention, but you're never going to actually convince anyone else that we're for "crowd control" lol no we're not. Let's be honest here. If you flick dust in a mob's eye, increasing enmity...please, it doesn't increase enmity. That mob won't turn. Ever. It may raise enmity as in...Enmity is a number that is technically raised. But it will NOT instill ANY confidence in your ability as a marauder to "control a crowd." THAT kind of enmity is : where is the mob, on the conjurer or on the marauder? If marauder, success. If conjurer, fail.

Know what generates enmity more than any enmity-generating ability that marauder has except for warmonger?

Raging strike.

Want to know how to generate a ton of enmity on marauder?
Protect, shell, raging strike, ferocity, hawk's eye, provoke, taunt.

IE not this job. Someone else's job. It just pisses me off when jobs that need better roles and better design are least helped...by the players that play that job. "We're for crowd control" What, behind the two mages who are better at it, and the gladiator whose abilities are more reliable at it? Fourth best, least reliable? Yayyyy? To control a crowd, let's put it this way: I'd choose conjurer and equip warmonger. Not marauder and equip cure III.

[Lienn]

Well, do it then. Put warmonger at your CON and go for it! ^^ I bet with your rank difference your CON might hold mobs much better than your MRD.

Its obvious that you are one of those that still didn't notice this game isn't FFXI...so makes no sense to continue pointing the differences. If you can't see the difference between a mage crowd control and a melee crowd control, nothing we say about MRD will ever make sense to you...so just stick with your CON and your sleep like you probably did for years in FFXI.

[Vanguard319]

Well, do it then. Put warmonger at your CON and go for it! ^^ I bet with your rank difference your CON might hold mobs much better than your MRD.

Its obvious that you are one of those that still didn't notice this game isn't FFXI...so makes no sense to continue pointing the differences. If you can't see the difference between a mage crowd control and a melee crowd control, nothing we say about MRD will ever make sense to you...so just stick with your CON and your sleep like you probably did for years in FFXI.

no point in arguing with Peregrine, you should see the complete BS she spouted about archer.

anyway, returning to topic, I'm an r21 mrd, and I've noticed that it's accuracy is awful, and I mean god awful. Feint helps, but you still miss more than half the time. Maybe I'm playing the job wrong or something, but I have trouble soloing mobs that I could kill easily as a gla at the same rank. Any thoughts from someone OTHER than the OP would be appreciated.

[Lienn]

Unfortunately its correct. at r20~40 MRD does miss like crazy. You can use accuracy gear/skills to help like Eternal shade, Kokoroon's Darkshell Mail (this one is an ace body piece...and seeing you have GLA and LNC i bet you might have it) and the nightsomething visor (forgot the name). HQ weapon also helps alot.

Well, but about MRD acc i could just make a joke like miqo'te companion does...but i'd end having my post removed =P ...so let's say just it feels better later on. Unless when i fight extremely evasivise mobs, like cactuars, i often feel like my MRD acc is better than my GLA acc (If you can get a engraved Bhuj +3 you can beat 160 acc with darksilver rings...if you go full acc gear you might even beat 170~180 acc).

[Grundy]

What Leinn said, also try and get your hands on 4 x HQ Brass rings and an HQ Brass chocker and eat Tuna Mithkabobs.

[Goshzilla]

Want to know how to generate a ton of enmity on marauder/pugilist/gladiator/competent player that isn't narrow minded?
raging strike, ferocity, hawk's eye, provoke, taunt, warmonger.

Fixed that for you to make it more realistic for NM fights (if your tank really needs to pop a spell to gain enmity then that is just sad).

The suggestion of those skills whether you are serious or not sounds wonderful on PAPER, but what stops the other tank classes on grabbing them too? Do you see where this is going? It doesn't stop the issues that there are no diversity in ANY tanking class.

The only thing I agree with your entire thread is that there is no diversity in any classes. The rest I won't bother replying since they were full of anecdotal evidence and subjective opinion.

[Rentahamster]

MRD has defender, which is a good defensive skill and generates decent hate when in steadfast.

MRD has the cheapest AOE TP move, Skull Sunder

MRD has the best AOE normal attack

MRD has Storm's Path, which does AOE and generates hate.

MRD doesn't have the godly dmg mitigation shield moves that GLD does

MRD doesn't have godly evasion like PGL does

Maim is a good way to increase dmg.


Basically MRD is a good way to do AOE dmg, so is useful on the dodore, goblin, and mosshorn fights. MRD is a good Goblin tank, I can tank all goblins no prob on MRD, although I usually do it with THM nowadays.

Game needs to add more AOE and multiple claims so that MRD can have fun AOEing everything to death.

[Filtiarne]

A few things about MRD and its Accuracy issue:

1. Str does not increase your acc. Ive done a through test on it by putting my stats at 174/min str/dex and slowly changing it to min/174 str/dex. My acc. was all but nonexistent with no dex and slowly got better the more dex I put in. I did notice harshly diminished returns after passing the 100+ dex mark so I just leave it hovering around there.

2. +Acc rings are your friend. For the same reason as point #1 adding more dex past 100 gives you minimal returns while the silver rings boost the stat directly.

3. To avoid the frustration of boosting up your 3000TP maim only to whiff I present a simple solution. Put Hawk Eye into your boost regimen.
Ferocity--> Raging Strike--> Bloodbath II (if I'm tanking and need HP)--> Hawk eye--> Maim
This is a devastating combo that not only greatly boosts your enimty but will hit extremely hard and rarely miss.
And if you aren't tanking it might be best to keep raging strike/ferocity/bloodbath off the list because that many boost in a row will almost always piss the mob off. Keep your tank happy.
Also keep in mind that this regimen can be used with storms path as well, hawk eye will boost it's accuracy toward all mobs within it's range, letting you nail nearly all of them for massive total damage. Watch the yellow numbers rain, BIG yellow numbers.

4. If you are still paranoid about missing and don't want to waste Hawk Eye on something less significant like skull sunder consider sticking skill precision (glad) onto your skillbar. I haven't been able to throughly test it's effect on my acc. but hey, its something extra if you have room for it.

5. Acc. food is your friend. Bring it with you wherever you go and try to keep your elemental affinity attuned for it to give max results. Again, it's another item that boosts the acc. stat directly which can help push you over the edge in terms of acc. instead of trying to max dex and suffering the diminishing returns.

6. Another skill that can serve to improve your effectiveness in battle (this goes for most classes actually) is one that is often overlooked and underused. Thm's Initiation skill can be extremely useful if you have an extra one that isn't too busy spamming heals and debuffs. All too often I see people trying to be Mrd/Drk and using absorb skills in battle. Either they sacrifice points into piety, or they don't and fail miserably at every absorb attempt. The simple solution is to let the Thm absorb for you, then transfer the boosted stats to you. Try asking a Thm to hit you with Def/Acc (tanking) or Att/Acc buffs the next chance you get. You wont be disappointed I assure you.

7. With all these skills I've found my accuracy issues to be a thing of the past, Think about it.
With 100dex, +acc rings, +acc food, Hawk Eye, Disorient II, steadfast, Skill precision and the
4-7/8 person Party boost; you shouldn't be missing much either.

A few points about Marauders as tanks:

1. MRD CAN TANK, but it's not always the best choice, pick your battles with this class.

2. MRD CAN crowd control, if you know how and when to use crowd control. For example:

When fighting Haughtpox Bloatbelly, it is often the strategy to split the party up into two groups. One tank and mage to hold the whole group still, and one off tank (in this case the main tank to be used later) to pull single mobs off the main group one at a time to finish them separately. MRD excels at this for several reasons.

---Our hate generation isn't as strong as a well equipped glad, which makes pulling one mob off at a time easier for the off tank. However, it is more than strong enough to keep the crowd in place.
---Our HP pool is massive, we have increased parry from steadfast, foresight II and Featherfoot; thus making us able to withstand the damage. NOT better than a glad could, but easily enough for a single mage to heal us comfortably
---We have several, powerful AOE abilities that make holding all the mobs off the mage healing you a breeze. I'll repeat this statement, MRD isn't for crowd control where you will all be hammering all the mobs with AOE as a group, while the MRD attempts to hold aggro. Honestly I don't even know why you would bother with crowd control if that was your plan anyway. MRD can hold the group off its healer, while a second group takes on one mob at a time off the main group. That's how its done.

3. MRD CAN off tank, obviously one gladiator for each mob would be a better choice, but if you want the second mob to take damage while it's being held away, MRD is the better choice. If you want the mob to be held still, no matter what the party as a whole does to it, choose glad.

I think you can see a pattern beginning to emerge here. FFXIV is NOT designed for people looking for a one-size-fits-all class. You can diversify and are very-much encouraged to do so. If you think there should be one tank job for all situations, then you better just quit right now and go back to FFXI. Every class has its strengths and weaknesses and it's your job as a marauder (or pug, or glad, or lnc or anything) to learn them, and then decide when it's appropriate to apply them. You can try to do everything and fail (miserably I might add) or you can pick your battles and excel.

A few points on the role of MRD as a class, its strengths and weaknesses:
STRENGTHS

1. We have a massive HP pool, the highest in the game and it should be taken advantage of
2. We have more AOE skills than any other melee class. Use them wisely
3. We can deal massive damage both to a single mob, or a large group (preferably the group to utilize strength #2)
3a. Maim not only hits like a truck, but it opens up the mob to take even more damage, position your party behind a MRD using maim and you will all hit harder. Put Maim into a battle regimen(BR) before the final few weapon skills(WS) and they will spike harder. Put maim at the end of a large WS BR and it will spike to a level that would make archers jealous.
4. Extremely fast TP generation when attacking multiple mobs, WS spam like a pug.
5. Mrd can wear the same Armor as a gladiator and put it to use just as effectively, so we take similar damage hit for hit as a gladiator would, minus the glad's ability to wield a shield. This allows for a Mrd to get up close to a mob with a strong aoe, with little fear of death.
6. Mrd can heal itself with bloodbath II quite nicely, while the cooldown on bloodbath is a little long, if you communicate with your healers, you can save them some MP by letting them rest once your bloodbath is ready, then blasting a mob with the following combo or something similar once your HP begins to drop
ferocity> raging strike> bloodbath (I or II) > hawk eye (to make sure it sticks) > maim (or storm's path for a group)
6a. Note, this heal will usually give back upwards of 900 HP, BUT you can't use it often so don't expect to be independent of healers, you aren't
7. Enmity generation trait, as well as secondary enmity generation on certain WS while in steadfast (use enduring march if the mob moves and stop complaining that you need to hold still, coordinate with your group to help keep the mob close, teamwork is key)

WEAKNESSES:
1. Poor accuracy, I list this first because it is the first issue people think of when considering marauder. It can be HELPED but not ELIMINATED. Silver rings, +acc food, +acc gear (kokoroon's and the like if you arent tanking due to the lower def)
the 5%/10% light/full party buffs, hawk eye, skill precision etc as listed before help immensely
2. Slow TP generation when attacking one mob, use invigorate to help but it will still take a while to reach 2000+TP for maim.
3. Stamina Issues can become a hassle especially when invigorate eats half your bar, disorient eats half, heavy swing eats a lot and full swing eats even more. Be patient and swing when you can is the best you can do.
4. Some useless weapon skills:
4a. Iron Tempest- abysmal damage and high stamina cost make it a throw away skill also, in relation to the wanna be marauder claiming tempest has huge accuracy problems, this is because they don't know that its aoe is a doughnut shape, mobs right in your face WONT GET HIT EVER. you need to back up and use it. Also, you don't need to be engaged with a mob to use it, just have enough TP and you can let it rip anywhere, still pretty useless though.
4b. Barbaric Yawp- it's supposed to be used as an interrupt but it doesn't go off instantly and makes timing it next to impossible and it just takes up space on your actions bar
4c. Fracture- this WS has its moments if it actually lands, but its duration isn't very long and you need to parry first which wont happen often unless you are tanking or aggro a side mob just to swing at you.

tl;dr - go back and read it

[Peregrine]

Sorry, glad was better than mrd at HPBB crowd control. You can't keep hate, your skills are less useful than a glad's circular aoe moves, and you can't even damage better than your healer. Aero destroys you, let alone what a thaumaturge does to the brags.

Did you just seriously argue that one of your skills is doughnut shaped, and that's a GOOD thing?
Come on now. Mrd is the least functional job in the game right now. Completely self-defeating role in light of its god-given abilities. They truly have no use, and what use they have on paper is completely hypothetical and academic.

They are no better at crowd control than a conjurer is at blocking, in reality.

Job's gonna be sittin on its ass in ulda if you all don't get up and fight for it.