anyone have ACN/SMN/SCH advice?

[Mindcl0ud]

Aero cannot be used by summoner. It is not a cross class spell.

Summoner / Scholar is pretty fun. Scholars are more tank healer with a strong ranged shield. They play very different from WHM.

Summoners are awesome and are a DoT class. I have made a lot of posts about them and in general feel I have a strong understanding of the class so feel free to PM me.

[Hiroradius]

Well I'm level 45, and my rotation is

Miasma, Bio II, Bio, Fester, Thunder, Ruin 1, Ruin 2, Ruin, Ruin, Ruin 2. Repeat

Following this method, when I start my repeat Miasma and Bio are on about 2 or 3 seconds left and Bio II is usually about 10 seconds, so when I repeat Miasma is refreshed, Bio drops, Bio II get's refreshed, with an instant Bio.

Also don't spam Ruin 2, it may be instant but it also applies Blind and with Diminish returns, you if you cast Ruin 2 when Blind comes off it's more useful to the tank then spamming it, plus it doesn't do more damage then Ruin and has the same recast time.

If there are 3 or more mobs, I do try and get a Bane in there after the first Bio rotation, and usually will throw out a Tri-diaster followed by a ruin II so my egi will keep attacking (otherwise because Tri-diaster places a bind on the mob the egi stops attacking assuming you are running)

[Kindled]

It seems no one (Summoners) is using Aero here, even if it's an instant cast.

Is it because it deals far too little dot comparing to other skills?

Arcanist's have access to Aero, however summoners do not. But they can use thunder.

[BabySealClubber]

Opening rotation - Rouse>Spur>Obey>Raging Strikes>Bio II>Miasma>Thunder>Bio>Sic>Fester>Energy Drain>Ruin II>Energy Drain>Ruin II>Aetherflow>Ruin II>Fester>Shadow Flare>Ruin II>Run in and Miasma II if contagion is coming off CD, or if there are multiple targets

Some times I hit Sic right before thunder and still get Contagion on Bio. the reason I cast Thunder before Bio in my opening rotation is otherwise, I would recast Bio before setting pet to Sic, to get as high of a duration on Bio as possible.

Mid Battle Priority - Rouse>Spur>Raging Strikes>Bio II>Miasma>Bio>Energy Drain if low mana>Fester>Aetherflow if at 0 stacks Aethe>Thunder>Shadow Flare>Miasma 2 if Contagion is coming off CD or there are multiple targets>Ruin II if moving>Ruin

A DoT spell's damage vs. Ruin is DoT potency times number of ticks. number of ticks is DoT duration divided by 3. (add 5 ticks if contagion will happen before the dot expires)
Some DoT's also do an initial tick, but I haven't included that.
Bio II - 350 (525)
Miasma - 280 (450)
Shadow Flare - 250
Bio - 240 (440)
Thunder - 150 (275)
Ruin/Ruin II - 80
Miasma II - 70 (150) [per target]

Why would you ever go back to Sic? You're only hurting your pet's DPS by it. The optimal attack your pet should be using as much as possible is its primary attack. Having Garuda use her AoE on cooldown, or Ifrit his AoE and stun and useless Spikes, is a big waste of damage potential. Besides, you should have full control of Contagion. You should never let Garuda just use it on cooldown.


I also dont understand why you think applying Bio after Thunder and before Contagion is a good thing. Bio is our hardest hitting DoT, and Contagion adds a set number of seconds. Bio last 18 seconds. Even if Contagion is used at .5s remaining, its still only going to tick for another 15 seconds. It doesn't matter if Contagion is used right away or not, no matter what, its going to tick for a total of 33 seconds with Contagion. You want Bio running as early as possible, because it hits the hardest.

There's a lot going on with the SMN rotation, and with that, and worrying about boss mechanics, I usually notice Contagion is off CD more often than i notice it's about to come off CD. Also, my DoT's almost never fall off, so contagion usually gets its full effect. I think this is worth the pet using a 90 potency attack instead of a 100 potency attack once every 30 seconds. I also don't like having to retarget the boss to extend if I'm in the middle of DoTing up an add.

Losing 15 total potency by casting Thunder before Bio means you cast Contagion 2.5 seconds earlier. Whether or not that's worth it is debatable depending on the fight. having DoTs extend 2.5 sec earlier could mean you don't need to restack your first set of DoTs before spreading to an add, and could change the order you use abilities in your rotation. Usually, if I Thunder before Bio, I get more enmity on the boss throughout the fight.

I also dont really agree with casting two Energy Drains in your opening sequence. I know you want to get through your Aetherflow stacks quickly to activate Aetherdam and start its cooldown, but I'd wager you're losing a lot of DPS due to how hard Fester can hit, especially if it crits, and you're basically giving up 2 Fester's. I suppose if you still have the Raging Strikes buff for both Energy Drains, it may be worthwhile, but I would rather cast Shadow Flare (with Raging Strikes) than blowing Energy Drains. I could see maybe using a single Energy Drain and two Festers though. This is normally how I open:

Rouse/Spur > Raging Strikes > Obey > Bio II > Bio > Miasma > Thunder > Fester* > Shadow Flare > Contagion* > Ruin

* Need to be careful with Fester since DoT's are not applied immediately after casting, the animation needs to end first, thus why I cast Thunder first. Otherwise, you risk using Fester with only Bio and Bio II taken into account. Same with Contagion, thus why Shadow Flare first.

I guess that's true. I never really stopped to do the math, just like having AD back on CD as soon as possible if it's already off CD. looks like you lose 300 potency over all if you double energy drain at the start after fester. but this only really applies to bosses since adds will be dead before you get off your third fester. the dps the raid gains from everyone going back on the boss earlier is worth the loss.

And like I mentioned earlier, I don't see Miasma II being worthwhile at all. Its instant damage is super low (20 potency) and its total DoT damage is 50 potency, grant total of 70 potency. On a single target, you're better off using that GCD casting Ruin for 80 potency. I can see it being a bit more useful for multiple targets, but I would never expect a SMN to actually run in and use it. If you're already in melee, than throwing one out is fine, given that there's MORE than 1 target.

It's 120 if you can contagion it, and there's no dps loss from running in if you do it when you use Bio or Ruin II. on Garuda, when she ports back, I usually Bio>Bane>Run in and MiasmaII>Run around and MiasmaII all grouped targets
140-2 targets
210-3 targets

Thinking about it, it may even be more beneficial to pop Enkindle right off the bat too, while your pet has Rouse/Spur. Enkindle sucks as a cooldown (its damage is far too low to deserve a 300s cooldown). However, this would really only apply to bosses outside of dungeons, as the fight actually needs to be longer than 300s (you need enough time to fire off a second Enkindle). However, more than likely, you'll only be using Enkindle once. So you should just use it when both Rouse/Spur are back off cooldown (which would be 120s if you're using Spur every 60s like you should be). I'm thinking this would also be risky in case your pet pulls aggro though.

On fights where there are no adds, I'll use Enkindle When I should Ruin. You usually don't get to use it twice, and when you do, it's usually on fights that have more than 1 target. Most fights have adds, so I usually save it until adds are up

Final thought: May be worthwhile to use Ruin II before Festers as well, due to animation "hidden" GCD. But that could be really frustrating...

On the opening rotation, I think I'd still use Fester first to get Aetherdam on CD. the ~10-20 potency loss from the first Ruin being late is worth it I think.
Any other time, you'll usually have more than enough time to just Fester after every Bio. Also, if you're ending you're opening with Bio, you can Fester during Bio GCD after the debuff is applied, but before the GCD ends.

I've been known to use weird rotations/strategies in WoW, but am usually top dps, so I stick with it unless I think it makes sense otherwise.


Has anyone figured out the Formula for spell damage? I would like to know the stat weights for Magic Damag, INT, DETER, CRIT, SPSP.
Also, at what point Accuracy becomes necessary? I don't think I've ever seen one of my spells miss in end game

[Thane]

Well I'm level 45, and my rotation is

Miasma, Bio II, Bio, Fester, Thunder, Ruin 1, Ruin 2, Ruin, Ruin, Ruin 2. Repeat

Following this method, when I start my repeat Miasma and Bio are on about 2 or 3 seconds left and Bio II is usually about 10 seconds, so when I repeat Miasma is refreshed, Bio drops, Bio II get's refreshed, with an instant Bio.

Also don't spam Ruin 2, it may be instant but it also applies Blind and with Diminish returns, you if you cast Ruin 2 when Blind comes off it's more useful to the tank then spamming it, plus it doesn't do more damage then Ruin and has the same recast time.

If there are 3 or more mobs, I do try and get a Bane in there after the first Bio rotation, and usually will throw out a Tri-diaster followed by a ruin II so my egi will keep attacking (otherwise because Tri-diaster places a bind on the mob the egi stops attacking assuming you are running)

You're not gaining anything from alternating between Ruin and Ruin II. You have to wait the 2.5s GCD after Ruin II, plus the 2.5s cast time of Ruin, which is a total of 5 seconds, the same amount of time it would haven taken casting Ruin back to back. Or, you could just continue casting Ruin, doing the same amount of damage, and not eating away at your mana. Ruin II really shouldn't be based around its Blind, its just a slight bonus. The advantage is Ruin II is having something to cast while moving (to sustain DPS), and having that very slight bit of burst when something is at 1% health. Oh, Ruin II is also great when you need to do something off the GCD.

The combination of Tri-disaster plus Ruin II will also OOM you super fast. I actually think Tri-disaster is garbage as an AoE ability. Not only do you need at least 3 targets to be even remotely better damage (Tri-Disaster=90 potency vs 3 targets, Ruin=80 potency vs 1 target) , but it cast a ton of mana, and you'll be forced to use Energy Drains (instead of Festers) just to stay in the fight, AND like you said, your pet immediately stops attacking due to Bind. I say stick to using Bane and Shadow Flare as your AoE. And if the mobs happen to be close enough, Miasma II doesn't hurt. Don't bother running in just to apply a crappy dot (I go further into Miasma II further down the post).

Opening rotation - Rouse>Spur>Obey>Raging Strikes>Bio II>Miasma>Thunder>Bio>Sic>Fester>Energy Drain>Ruin II>Energy Drain>Ruin II>Aetherflow>Ruin II>Fester>Shadow Flare>Ruin II>Run in and Miasma II if contagion is coming off CD, or if there are multiple targets

Some times I hit Sic right before thunder and still get Contagion on Bio. the reason I cast Thunder before Bio in my opening rotation is otherwise, I would recast Bio before setting pet to Sic, to get as high of a duration on Bio as possible.

Mid Battle Priority - Rouse>Spur>Raging Strikes>Bio II>Miasma>Bio>Energy Drain if low mana>Fester>Aetherflow if at 0 stacks Aethe>Thunder>Shadow Flare>Miasma 2 if Contagion is coming off CD or there are multiple targets>Ruin II if moving>Ruin

A DoT spell's damage vs. Ruin is DoT potency times number of ticks. number of ticks is DoT duration divided by 3. (add 5 ticks if contagion will happen before the dot expires)
Some DoT's also do an initial tick, but I haven't included that.
Bio II - 350 (525)
Miasma - 280 (450)
Shadow Flare - 250
Bio - 240 (440)
Thunder - 150 (275)
Ruin/Ruin II - 80
Miasma II - 75 (150) [per target]

Why would you ever go back to Sic? You're only hurting your pet's DPS by it. The optimal attack your pet should be using as much as possible is its primary attack. Having Garuda use her AoE on cooldown, or Ifrit his AoE and stun and useless Spikes, is a big waste of damage potential. Besides, you should have full control of Contagion. You should never let Garuda just use it on cooldown.

I also dont understand why you think applying Bio after Thunder and before Contagion is a good thing. Bio is our hardest hitting DoT, and Contagion adds a set number of seconds. Bio last 18 seconds. Even if Contagion is used at .5s remaining, its still only going to tick for another 15 seconds. It doesn't matter if Contagion is used right away or not, no matter what, its going to tick for a total of 33 seconds with Contagion. You want Bio running as early as possible, because it hits the hardest.

I also dont really agree with casting two Energy Drains in your opening sequence. I know you want to get through your Aetherflow stacks quickly to activate Aetherdam and start its cooldown, but I'd wager you're losing a lot of DPS due to how hard Fester can hit, especially if it crits, and you're basically giving up 2 Fester's. I suppose if you still have the Raging Strikes buff for both Energy Drains, it may be worthwhile, but I would rather cast Shadow Flare (with Raging Strikes) than blowing Energy Drains. I could see maybe using a single Energy Drain and two Festers though. This is normally how I open:

Rouse/Spur > Raging Strikes > Obey > Bio II > Bio > Miasma > Thunder > Fester* > Shadow Flare > Contagion* > Ruin

* Need to be careful with Fester since DoT's are not applied immediately after casting, the animation needs to end first, thus why I cast Thunder first. Otherwise, you risk using Fester with only Bio and Bio II taken into account. Same with Contagion, thus why Shadow Flare first.

And like I mentioned earlier, I don't see Miasma II being worthwhile at all. Its instant damage is super low (20 potency) and its total DoT damage is 50 potency, grant total of 70 potency. On a single target, you're better off using that GCD casting Ruin for 80 potency. I can see it being a bit more useful for multiple targets, but I would never expect a SMN to actually run in and use it. If you're already in melee, than throwing one out is fine, given that there's MORE than 1 target.

Thinking about it, it may even be more beneficial to pop Enkindle right off the bat too, while your pet has Rouse/Spur. Enkindle sucks as a cooldown (its damage is far too low to deserve a 300s cooldown). However, this would really only apply to bosses outside of dungeons, as the fight actually needs to be longer than 300s (you need enough time to fire off a second Enkindle). However, more than likely, you'll only be using Enkindle once. So you should just use it when both Rouse/Spur are back off cooldown (which would be 120s if you're using Spur every 60s like you should be). I'm thinking this would also be risky in case your pet pulls aggro though.

Final thought: May be worthwhile to use Ruin II before Festers as well, due to animation "hidden" GCD. But that could be really frustrating...