Is Warrior viable for end game contents?

[Coramac]

Snip

I see the difference. 7.8% assumes finish a combo rather than breaking it with IB and extended to 10 cooldowns with and additional 2.5 seconds at 15% bonus healing.

[Kitru]

I see the difference. 7.8% assumes finish a combo rather than breaking it with IB and extended to 10 cooldowns with and additional 2.5 seconds at 15% bonus healing.

Inner Beast doesn't break combos so you can use it indiscriminately.

[Kuvu]

WAR are viable end game as MT.The question will be if your grop will want you over a PLD.

He is correct, a war most likely will have more hp BUt they get spike dmg a lot more it seems. Pally will have lower hp and some spike but its more manageable with a pally then a war. I mean to say its easier on a healer to heal a pally over a war no matter how much hp the war has.

[Kiaris]

WAR can easily take hits per hit just as well as a PLD.

Boss hits War for 1000 DMG
Boss will hit PLD for 800 dmg

Healer will now Cast a Heal (last i saw cure 1 at 800) on a PLD
same Cure 1 on a WAR is 920.

There is a 80 Damage Difference... That is basically nothing.

As the WAR gets more Gear, his Inner beast will heal for more and more. HP's get much much higher.

as a PLD gets more Gear, his static Reduction... doesn't go anywhere.

As healers get more gear.. the 15% boost from WAR gets bigger and Bigger.

SCH healing a WAR makes an even bigger gap.
600 Heal 600 Shield off the single target.

On a pld..effectively 1200 Healed/Shielded.
On a war they get a double benefit of a 690 heal, 690 Shield - 1380 Total.

Now the WAR is mitigating more damage then a PLD due to increasing the heal AND shield of a SCH.


Pretty much.. Fresh at 50, PLD is better.
By the time Both have Full Darklight, WAR is ahead.. and will get farther and farther ahead as they get more gear.

A Good WAR does not spam Inner Beast, they use it as a cooldown.

Bosses usually have an attack that hits for 2-3k every x amount of seconds, i have yet to not have inner beast back up by the time the next one goes.

Ifrit for Example.

Lets go with 2600 DMG off his breath weapon.
PLD has taken 2080 dmg.


On my WAR i have 6,600 HP is all and most PLD i see have 4200 ish in equal gear.

He is at Half Life, i still have 4,000 HP left.

I took 520 DMG more then the PLD.

If a "Good WAR" watches for the healers to land their heal, then pop inner beast.. you just gave them a 15% boost so the 800 Cure 1 goes to a 920 heal.

PLD - Took 2080 DMG Cure 1 he is down to 1280 Dmg taken
WAR Took 2600 DMG Cure 1 hes is down to 1680 DMG taken.

WAR Now pops inner beast i can heal for 1k easy non Crit.

PLD - Took 2080 DMG Cure 1 he is down to 1280 Dmg taken
WAR -Took 2600 DMG Cure 1 heis down to 680 DMG taken


WAR is now ahead.


PLD Cooldowns are usually used after the fact, there are not many mobs that you need to save that "Big Cool down" for. Its mostly same attacks over and over and over.


WAR uses cooldowns to heal self after the hit.
PLD uses cooldowns to slow dmg down after the hit or before.

They balance out...

Both Tanks can Main Tank, Both Tanks can off tank.


Use Both in all roles.

[Zell]

A Good WAR does not spam Inner Beast, they use it as a cooldown.

Bosses usually have an attack that hits for 2-3k every x amount of seconds, i have yet to not have inner beast back up by the time the next one goes.

Bingo! That's what I used for Garuda and Ifrit.... I know my Inner Beast heals fro 900-1100 none crit and my hp currently is 5500.

As soon as My HP is ~2500 or Lower, I use it to get back up to 75% with healer topping me off. IF group ahs scholar and WHITE MAGE... i'm immediately topped off.

[Hachiko]

Stuff

Your math is all wrong. You've ignored the damage reduction component of Shield Oath when convenient, and you've pretended that WAR will always have 15% bonus heals.

Yes, a Scholar Adloquium will be 1380 heals+shield for the WAR and 1200 for the PAL. But 1200 for the pal mitigates more monster damage than 1380 does for the WAR because of the 20% damage reduction they receive. If a mob was doing 500 DPS, 1200 heal/shield would last 3 seconds on a Paladin. It would last 2.76 seconds on a WAR.

Should be obvious: a WAR is not "ahead" of a paladin in such a situation.

Second: how the hell is a 4200 HP PAL the "equivalent" of a 6600 HP WAR? WAR gets 25% bonus HP, not 50%. The equivalent of a 4200 PAL is a 5250 HP WAR.

Finally, you're basically contradicting yourself saying that inner beast heal is a cooldown, but you're comparing it to a PAL that isn't using any cooldowns. Yeah, a WAR using his cooldowns will be mitigating more damage than a PAL just sitting there and doing nothing defensive.

And that's to say nothing of the fact that block is a secondary form of passive mitigation.

There is no situation where a warrior will be "ahead" of a Paladin in terms of mitigation/heals/damage. Your analysis is entirely bereft of thought or accuracy.

[Kitru]

Now the WAR is mitigating more damage then a PLD due to increasing the heal AND shield of a SCH.

That is horribly flawed logic for people and only makes sense for people that don't know math. You keep forgetting to factor in how, regardless of how much better gear gets, the PAL will *still* take 20% less damage than a WAR. Yes, the WAR will get healed for 690 while a PAL will get healed for only 600, but, when hit by an attack that deals 690 damage, a WAR takes the full amount whereas a PAL takes only 552.

WAR will *not* get better as gear gets better. As you get more vit, the amount of hp that a WAR gets compared to a PAL is going to get larger, but, since a PAL's hp is *also* going to get larger, by 80% of what a WAR is going to get, it's *still* a break even. As healers get better gear, the amount of hp that a WAR gets compared to a PAL is going to get larger, but, since the PAL is taking 20% less damage, the PAL is *still* going to be better off.

Anyone that thinks that there is somehow some magical explanation for WAR suddenly becoming better as their gear gets better doesn't understand math.

[Kiaris]

If you honestly don't see WAR getting better with gear, your just a PLD in Denial.

PLD vs WAR base reduction goes up exactly the same as we get gear. Are you saying your 20% reduction from stance goes up as you get gear ?

I didn't think so. The heal form Inner beast and the 15% bonus does get better and better as healers heal for more per heal, all your saying is.. well you have more HP.. so they have more to heal.... yea that may be.. but mobs aren't hitting harder as i increase my HP and as healers are healing me for more and more as they get gear.


All people are looking at is 20% reduction and calling it done. I thought that until i played the class, and WAR can do it just as good.

WAR's that spam inner beast are bad, its a cooldown.. that you get back every 17.5 seconds if you time it good.

PLD - Lower HP 20% Reduction
WAR +25% HP, 15% healing Increase on them - can blow the increase for a 1k+ heal with 17.5 sec time on getting the 15% back.


So far, i build my 5 charges, set on them, and use them to negate spike dmg, and easily have the 5 charges back up before something else happens, ive also had zero issues tanking anything as the main tank.

The only issue i have with the Job is Bloodbath/Steel Cyclone/Holmgang


Both classes need a few tweaks, but overall.. they are both fine at doing maintank.

So Be in Denial all you want if you please :P i've had no issues, and my healers have no complaints so far.


Enjoy being a Stunbot :P

[Kitru]

If you honestly don't see WAR getting better with gear, your just a PLD in Denial.

Or, you know, someone that does math.

[Hachiko]

So Be in Denial all you want if you please :P i've had no issues, and my healers have no complaints so far.

You don't know what you're talking about. Paladins are better baseline. 20% reduction is effectively 25% more healing and 25% more HP. There is no point at which Warriors will benefit from gear improvements more than a PAL will when it comes to tanking.

There may be various points at which gear makes a WAR a sufficient tank. But a PAL equally geared will ALWAYS be easier to keep alive by a significant margin even before you look at cooldowns.

You are seriously overlooking 20% damage reduction entirely. It is a far better buff than the war's fluctuating % bonus healing and 25% additional HP.