SMN - Why it is not a very interesting job and not a good upgrade from ACN

[Klishren]

Then, you could look to additional content upon future patching. At that point you could implement a FF10 type summon system where you are shown riding the summon and take direct control. Obviously, the summon would still be much smaller than the primals that you fight through the game, but it would allow you to assume direct control. Now, each summon would be like a change of class. Each one could remain a damage focus so that the role was never altered, but the ability focus would change play style based on who you brought out.

Just some productive thoughts here as I was really looking forward to playing a summoner. I think the benefit to these ideas is that they could be made to the game without too much reworking of the existing structure. From reading other threads that have achieved developer support, it is that kind of productive suggestion set that we need to be looking at if we want this to get better.

[DemonHunter]

I for one LOVE the way they did summoner. Albeit I never picked the class for its iconic name. If you're going by the classic feel of summoner in FF games then you would literally be stuck in cast/animation for a solid 10 - 15 seconds casting a huge global ult which would have some giant representation of the god/primal in question come out and do its thing. I for one think that would be quite boring. Flashy, but boring.

I've always played DoT classes in every MMO I've played and this one has pretty much every good element of every one of them. Except the pet. I LOATHE pets in mmos mainly due to retarded AI and other such issues.

[DemonHunter]

Tried archer, was super boring having to basically spam the exact same buttons from level 1 - 35. Had to get THM to 15 in order to unlock SMN. WORST. TIME. IN. LIFE. if there is any class I would never play its that one. Just the feel of it is abhorrent to me. spamming one button and then pressing another just to spam a third (simplistic I know but you get my drift) all the while if you pull more than one mob your level you're insta-dead. Forget doing the 4+ level difficulty leves.

All in all, I think it really depends on the person. If you love DoT classes, then FFXIV summoner is for you. If you were expecting a pet class that relied on basically just PETS and flashy/long animations I'm sorry you're disappointed... but now people like me have a class to play!

[Duelle]

However, by doing so, they failed all previous fans of Summoner, because the gameplay style SE foced into it does not match the Summoner everyone wants and desires.

The summoner "everyone" wants and desires would not have worked. We already saw one mess in FFXI which tried to be true to the concept and ended up with a job they grew fearful of being overpowered to the point of intentionally gimping it, which only got a sliver of actual use when Alexander and Perfect Defense were introduced.

That being said, a buddy of mine who was not pleased with SMN being the way it was in FFXI hasn't shown any issue with the way SMN is designed here. Then again, he did play a warlock in WoW as well and had no trouble making the connection.

[shinros]

Trayes wrote this in a topic. I think square should of went with something like this IMO.

I am sure no one cares what I think but I do not enjoy the dot summoner with lame pets. If i had to change the playstyle away from dots into something else it would look like this.

Ruin: 80 potency. Grants you and your pet a buff depending on what pet you have out.
(Ifrit: Grants the user and pet stacking buff that increases damage by 5%, stacks 2 times)
(Titan: Lowers damage taken by the user and the pet by 5% for 4 seconds. Does not stack)
(Garuda: Grants the user and the pet 3% spell speed. Stacks 4 times. Garuda gains double from this effect)

Ruin II: 80 potency. This spell and the pet do a special bonus attack.
(Ifrit: Apply a 15 potency dot for 18 seconds.) Both the player and the pet apply this dot.
(Titan: Gain health equal to damage dealt.) Both the player and the pet heal based on the damage of thier attack.
(Garuda: Deal half damage to all enemies near the target) Both the player and the pet do the aoe damage.)

Now these are just ideas of how I would have made the summoner feel closer to their pets while adding some depth to the overall playstyle of the summoner. Also this is me only changing 2 skills. I am sure I could give a huge list of ideas.

Like an aether flow spell that grants a party buff based on the summon out.
Garuda would buff move speed and spell speed
Titan would give everyone a small stone skin
Ifrit would add "Enfire" to all melee attacks

Or it could just pass whatever the Ruin 1 buff is to the party for a short time. Like 5 seconds. Everyone gains 10% damage or everyone takes 5% less damage or everyone casts faster. Who knows. But I would have tried to make more of a connection.

[Samuraiking]

You're letting your nostalgia blind you.

I never said FFXI SMN was good, it was one of the worst not including FFXIV's. What I said was, even (as bad as it was) SMN in FFXI was more of a SMN than FFXIV's. I didn't level SMN in XI because it sucked, that isn't what I want. They should have either made it true to past FF SMNs or not done it at all. They had plenty of room to play around with BST if they wanted a pet class out. Intentionally ruining and morphing a loved class into something terrible was a waste.

[Mikejconnor]

i leveled summoner to 42. it was not what i was expecting or hoping for.

Now while im a little butthurt over it i just accepted that it wasnt for me as it is and i moved on to archer, which is effing awesome and it made it hurt less ^^

ps titan egi just looks stupid ><

edit: just to clarify i was hoping the summon would be the main focus of the job not just another dot with a health bar

[Duelle]

I never said FFXI SMN was good, it was one of the worst not including FFXIV's. What I said was, even (as bad as it was) SMN in FFXI was more of a SMN than FFXIV's. I didn't level SMN in XI because it sucked, that isn't what I want. They should have either made it true to past FF SMNs or not done it at all. They had plenty of room to play around with BST if they wanted a pet class out. Intentionally ruining and morphing a loved class into something terrible was a waste.

I guess we'll never agree on this. Ruining and morphing a class...see my sig for that one. >.>;

As I mentioned, your alternative would be summons being like minions: untargetabble with animations here and there, but the spells coming directly from you and several of your ability slots being blank because the summon you have out would determine your skill set. Visually it'd look like a summoner, but mechanically you have basically a THM/BLM with prettier animations and more blood sweat and tears from the art department. Not even getting into how potentially messy ACN would be if you wanted to go with that design.

You'd play like the halfway point between Rydia and XI's summoner but without the pet mechanics. Would we be better off? Who knows.

The only real point against XIV's version of SMN is that Final Fantasy tends to have a ton of the damn things, and I'm not sure how that'll work out once Ramuh, Leviathan, Shiva and so on enter the picture. Midgarsomr and Kujata have been written off as great beasts, Odin and Bahamut are out due to their being elder primals.

[Samuraiking]

-snip-

I'm not unreasonable, I didn't say my ideas were good. It's not really my job or place to choose the mechanics, only offer ideas on what is terrible and give a few things that might improve it. None of us are so disillusioned as to think something like FFX summoner would work in an mmorpg, but we also know that a DoT pet class is a terrible idea FOR being SMN. Take the name summoner away. Call it Jibblybits or something and either find a way to make a proper SMN, or just don't make one.

As for RDM, I don't agree that FFXI did a perfect RDM, either. They turned it into a whm/blm with a refresh mechanic. While it's true for endgame it was a mage, there were PLENTY of people who used its melee mechanics too, though, just not in endgame.

In short, if you can't do it proper, don't fucking doing it. FF fans aren't the most reasonable and forgiving of souls.

[Ambacht]

It's a really shame to see and hear that something as iconic as the summoner has become so dull.
Since it's called a summoner indeed it should involve the summons abit more and make it their centre.
Also the story should involve more of the primals, I mean you're using a part of them. You should at least be able to learn abit more about them no?
Summoners should be made into something unique and cool, not some freaking dotter with a wierd pet.