Count me amoung the skeptics ...

[Shiyo]

I was saying the game was so broken that even the servers didn't work properly. At least this game worked, that one didn't at release. It also had far less content, mobs were just as weak,etc. Basically the game was a bigger mess than this one is currently. It got fixed, and I'm hoping this game gets fixed too.

The game was crap at release, this game is crap. A lot of people seem to not know how bad FF11 was at release, and think this game is far worse. That's my point.

[Preypacer]

I was saying the game was so broken that even the servers didn't work properly. At least this game worked, that one didn't at release. It also had far less content, mobs were just as weak,etc. Basically the game was a bigger mess than this one is currently. It got fixed, and I'm hoping this game gets fixed too.

The game was crap at release, this game is crap. A lot of people seem to not know how bad FF11 was at release, and think this game is far worse. That's my point.

Okay... Point made.

Still not sure what that has to do with the topic of this thread.

[Shai]

I was saying the game was so broken that even the servers didn't work properly. At least this game worked, that one didn't at release. It also had far less content, mobs were just as weak,etc. Basically the game was a bigger mess than this one is currently. It got fixed, and I'm hoping this game gets fixed too.

The game was crap at release, this game is crap. A lot of people seem to not know how bad FF11 was at release, and think this game is far worse. That's my point.

The argument fails because of some points I made and the fact that FFXI was the real "next gen MMO" after Everquest. It raised the bar a lot and it was a big name franchise like FF. It had a lot going for it that it could afford a year of flopping around like a dead fish. It had the time and players had the patience (notably the Japanese market instead of the Western one) to let it develop because they could only play it or ... what? Go back to what? EQ?

(I'm not saying EQ was bad. It was different, and older, and a pioneer - I'm just saying FFXI made it look and feel outdated once XI was working properly; simalarly EQ did that to Ultima).

The problem is that only works if it's your first MMO, or if the MMO is so far ahead of the competition that it can afford it. Maybe Tanaka thought it would be, but (as evidenced by player responses) it's not. It not only has to compete with finished games like XI and WoW, but it's come out at a time when MMO is the next big thing for gaming industry to milk for profit. It had a very big job if it was going to impress and become a player in the major leagues, and it failed.

It's unfair that a fledgling game is compared to games that are almost a decade old. It's "unfair" but that's life.

Aside: China recently requested from the UN that it not be held to the same "human rights" policies and laws as developed countries because they didn't have to do it when they were in the process of industrializing. They should be exempt from laws of public safety, environmental health and such because it's their first time up at bat, 100ish years late. Well, too bad. You play in the big leagues by the big leagues' rules.

Back to XIV - The argument fails because human interest isn't determined by comparisons to 10 years ago. It has to compare to what's around and available and working and interesting and fun. There's no time to grow in this industry any more. You have to hit the ground running and be able to keep up. XIV is failing to catch up and keep up after hitting the ground and falling on its face.

[Powercow]

The argument fails because of some points I made and the fact that FFXI was the real "next gen MMO" after Everquest. It raised the bar a lot and it was a big name franchise like FF. It had a lot going for it that it could afford a year of flopping around like a dead fish. It had the time and players had the patience (notably the Japanese market instead of the Western one) to let it develop because they could only play it or ... what? Go back to what? EQ?

While I think this is a bit off-topic to the, well, topic, it's a very good point. It's why this game didn't do so well, and all the arguments of "Well when FFXI came out it was in bad shape too!" are moot.

When FFXI came out there was almost no competition. Today, you have to compete against a dozen solid MMOs. Almost any niche can be found, whether it be in WoW, Rift, LOTRO, FFXI, Warhammer, AoC, Tera, DCUO, DDO, etc. etc. People won't be patient for a broken game to fix itself like they would have been 8 years ago. They'll simply jump ship.

I have no doubt that FFXIV will be a great game. I'm just hoping that there'll be people willing to give it another shot. When the PS3 version comes out and FFXIV is re-launched, they're going to have one hell of an uphill battle to convince people the game is good after so many people have said otherwise. Let's hope their marketing team is up to the challenge, because I think soon(ish) they're going to be the most important department to FFXIV's success or failure.