Tanaka or Yoshi?

[Physic]

G'mornin. I wanted to respond to Shai, but I'm on my phone at work so I have to try to keep it simple. First off, I gave your response a "like" because despite the fact that we seem to disagree about Tanaka's effectiveness, you did raise valid concerns about Yosihda. And while I unfortunately don't have the time right now to respond to all of your rebuttals, I'll focus on one. The SP situation.

When we first started playing, we were killing mobs....no biggie. Well, what was happening is that we would go out and kill a mob and get 237 total SP. We would them go and kill the same type of mob and get 14 SP. Ridiculous. But the worse part was that when players asked why the huge RNG based discrepancy in SP gained, Tanaka didn't take an objective look at valid player concerns and make adjustments. He simply punished the players more for having the audacity to speak out about it. He gave us a lower, static SP number, and considered the matter closed. Under the old system, the most efficient way to get SP was to remove all gear, equip the worst weapon you had, and whail on mobs.

That was what Tanaka gave us.
That system was fundamentally flawed, from the ground up, and that's what Tanaka gave us.
This isn't speculation or theorycrafting.
That was inexcusable.

Last thing....sorry the metaphor didn't resonate, but what I was trying to imply is that FFXIV is the most beautiful game I have ever seen(Porsche), that for he most part absolutely does not function the way a game should(no engine, holes in the floor to propel the car...as opposed to simply having an engine).

this is incorrect, apparently you didnt know how the exp system worked, you got good exp for doing damage, and better exp for fighting harder things, using a garbage weapon made your exp crappy, also to do any type of damage on a monster worthwhile, you needed your best weapons. monsters worthwile usually hit hard so putting on bad armor got you killed. with a strong team you got 400-500+ a kill, and you killed pretty fast, if you used cures, you could get way more, but thats a story for mages. also debuffs were great, so you could proc of the debuff and the weapon skill. i dont remember if debuff counted towards the cap or not, but suffice to say you could get great exp, and have fun doing it, the problem is you needed knowledge, and 3 or more people to use it effectively. and for solo or slow people, the randomness was bad. Im not saying its the best in the world, but it had real advantages, and you could get really good gains pretty fast in good parties, where you killed stuff as fast as you can, no one held back, we were all capping exp, why would you hold back.

[Elexia]

You should just all forget about producers. Focus on the director and the others members of the true developpement staff instead. (Yoshida is both, maybe it's why it's leading to confusion?)

(about PS2 limitations on FFXI : as far as I can remember - I think it was before the release of Aht Urhgan - they clearly stated they weren't limited in adding more inventory, but limited in making inventory of more than 80 items, which is still verified today)

Yep, the limitations are why they have to find "other means", since the default inventory size of FFXI iirc, is around 24k, but the PS2 can only display and call so much of it, which is why the Satchel and Mog Sack are immediately linked to your gobby bag size, which wasn't "to be nice."

[Arik]

G'mornin Physic.

Was this the case for mages/healers as well?
Under the original SP system, if both a healer and a DD teamed together and fought, say, 1000 mobs, would they have gained the same SP after the 1000th mob?

Was there really a rationale for fighting a mob and getting 250 SP, then fighting the same mob and getting 0-15 SP?

I hope that I am not simply misremembering sept-nov26th.

Thanks, go Yoshi!!

[Nuru]

1 + 1 = 1 to you guys, how the hell does that work?

Tanaka + Yoshida = Tanaka and Yoshida, not either or.

So, 1 + 1 DOES = 2. Learn your math guys, and then you can relate to real life situations.

[Physic]

G'mornin Physic.

Was this the case for mages/healers as well?
Under the original SP system, if both a healer and a DD teamed together and fought, say, 1000 mobs, would they have gained the same SP after the 1000th mob?

Was there really a rationale for fighting a mob and getting 250 SP, then fighting the same mob and getting 0-15 SP?

I hope that I am not simply misremembering sept-nov26th.

Thanks, go Yoshi!!

actually when you had long parties you saw that the exp sort of stayed the same, there were different enemies that worked with some jobs better than others, like a melee heavy party could get really good exp chaing low hp mobs, but the healer got weak exp, the solution is for the healer to focus more on damage and debuffs, but many didnt understand that. Ideally for a straight healer, healing a bunch of people was good, so they loved aoe mobs, once you started to see how it worked, it was pretty decent, it actually made people play well and rewarded them for being on point, healers would watch the enemy for its aoes, and start casting before it even hit, removing para was also something they were on top of. for me, debuffing and doing as much damage as possible was the path to great exp.

problem is on weak mobs, you could kill em before you got the random proc, and who is most likely to be fighting weaker mobs? soloing people, and who solos? beginners usually. basically they should have either had a minimum exp amount, or they should have cut the gains but made them non random. like i said, it has its flaws, but it wasnt something where you got a lot of exp for failing.

[Arik]

Understood.

Ty.

[darkstarpoet1]

actually when you had long parties you saw that the exp sort of stayed the same, there were different enemies that worked with some jobs better than others, like a melee heavy party could get really good exp chaing low hp mobs, but the healer got weak exp, the solution is for the healer to focus more on damage and debuffs, but many didnt understand that. Ideally for a straight healer, healing a bunch of people was good, so they loved aoe mobs, once you started to see how it worked, it was pretty decent, it actually made people play well and rewarded them for being on point, healers would watch the enemy for its aoes, and start casting before it even hit, removing para was also something they were on top of. for me, debuffing and doing as much damage as possible was the path to great exp.

problem is on weak mobs, you could kill em before you got the random proc, and who is most likely to be fighting weaker mobs? soloing people, and who solos? beginners usually. basically they should have either had a minimum exp amount, or they should have cut the gains but made them non random. like i said, it has its flaws, but it wasnt something where you got a lot of exp for failing.

incorrect. they were no where even close to the same. if you got in a 3-4 hour grind party with the original system the mages would get 2-3x as much sp as any mele class.

[Physic]

incorrect. they were no where even close to the same. if you got in a 3-4 hour grind party with the original system the mages would get 2-3x as much sp as any mele class.

only if it was a party made for them with like 10 melee getting hit with aoe, but yeah they did have possibility to get a much higher cap,x2 so yeah that did happen, but in our smaller parties they were usually a bit behind so ehh

[darkstarpoet1]

only if it was a party made for them with like 10 melee getting hit with aoe, but yeah they did have possibility to get a much higher cap,x2 so yeah that did happen, but in our smaller parties they were usually a bit behind so ehh

no even with crab parties with no aoe mages still got much much more sp than meles did. that is big or small parties.

[Physic]

no even with crab parties with no aoe mages still got much much more sp than meles did. that is big or small parties.

crab parties were another mage trick! i got more on efts, skel, bats, vultures ahriman hogs. definately puks, we cleaned up on puks at one point.

crabs were really bad due to high defense, only got good procs off of status effects on em for me, and they took too long to kill even when i did cap. raptors were a good balance

course i was a pug, so maybe i needed softer targets