Tanaka or Yoshi?

[Shai]

Wow! This is one of the greatest speculative debate/discussions I've ever read on a forum - and for the most part one of the most cordial! I have a long post brewing; I can feel it.

First off, I've thought I was on crazy pills for the last 6 months. All kinds of fan love rallied around Yoshida like he was the messiah of MMOs and I couldn't understand what the craze was all about. I kept thinking, "Hey, I'm not a huge fan of Tanaka, but what has this guy done to merit this?" He wrote us some cute letters with humorous undertones and everyone (probably starved for attention by Tanaka) lead the biggest cheer campaign I've seen possibly ever. I'm so, so, glad to see that finally things are turning around - finally people are wondering "What the heck is Yoshida even doing?" and it's probably happening because his letters are next to nothing now. He's dropped his proverbial ball, the thing that made him a champion. Without his letters filled with lots of hope and vague content ideas with no deadlines (really? this excites you?) people are starting to wake up.

As I said, I'm a long time Tanaka critic. Reasons previously stated have caused me to practically want to strangle the guy. I agree that his "shut up and listen" approach works for him in a weird way, but if it weren't so damn abrasive people may actually appreciate him including me. I don't like being lied to and I think any long-time player of XI knows this guy lied straight to our faces with the blanket "PS2 Limitations" on a lot of stuff. There probably were limitations that required a lot of work, but saying we can't have more inventory for 5 years then suddenly "oh new inventory if you pay $10 for a security token" was a slap in the face. So yeah - lot of things about Tanaka to not like.

I was delighted when he stepped down. I didn't know Yoshida (or care) because it was like the Iron Curtain had finally dropped. We were going to be let in on what was going on! We'd be a part of the development! Things were going to change and be more open! Well, 6mo later and I got to tell you -> I HAVE NO CLUE WHERE THE GAME IS GOING. Everything Yoshida says is so vague. Half of it I think is just to make people "Shut up and listen" to begin with. Such as "considering Jump" and "considering AH." What does that even mean? Practically nothing. It's basically saying, "Yeah we read you, now wait indefinitely while we work on real issues" and lots of his comments are this way.

It's only very recently (starting with announced Auto Attack and now another 6 week wait on Dungeons / Battle Systems) that I think about that last update post from Tanaka. The one about "player run guilds" and "ships." I wonder what he would have brought to the table in 6 months to flesh out this game that we still don't have because fans filled out a poll and now we're getting a new battle system. People like Pere admitting there were untapped potentials in the battle system that no one even understood or realized until recently (though I saw many of them around ... idk February? Too late for poor Tanaka. Too late for that poll that already decided the fate of the Battle System).

I do think it's too soon to truly judge Yoshida, but I'm with you when I say I may be wondering FOR YEARS what this game might have been with Tanaka. I think what this game really needs right now is some concrete deadlines. I realize how hard that must be when you're re-working an entire battle system, but it would be nice to know ... when that system will start to implement (June, I believe) and when it's likely to be finished?

It would be nice if someone would comment on how long we'll be waiting on Chocobos & Airships. I'm so tired of hearing those two words, a dev could practically come in and go "You won't see that for 18 months. So stfu." and I"d be like "Thank heavens! at least we know!" so people would stop whining about it.

I keep thinking I waited almost 7 years for XI to produce a timeline of scheduled content and events like they have had the past 2 years and I finally quit that game for a game I think will be more progressive and interactive with the customers - and it's like the dark ages while XI knows most of the big selling points they're going to get for the rest of the year. You know what I mean?

Yoshida probably has a direction. I still have fingers crossed that he does. He probably has a lot of good ideas or he wouldn't be where he is now (either that or he's a figurehead and PR face for some other guy like Tanaka) but keeping us in the dark on where things are headed and when we can expect them is a real Tanaka thing to do.

So if we're going to be in the dark, Tanaka-style, I'd rather have Tanaka. Though I still think Yoshida may have some magic to produce for the game, he's yet to prove it to me. He seems to just throw away the ideas I liked for ideas I don't like or am luke-warm about (auto-attack, I'm looking at you).

[Speeral]

Tanaka is working as a consultant on the project, read the letters he's still very much involved yoshi's job is communication and bringing satisfaction up. I dunno where some of you people get this stuff. Plus the game is meant to be easier to get in and get out for the everyday gamer that does not have hours a day to spend. Surely content of that kind is going to be coming. As far as end game is concerned most including myself will be waiting for that stuff to come out longer than early and mid game content. This game for release will need content for all level ranges. That being said the game was incomplete at release so all that rank 1-50 content has to be designed plus as well expac content and vision. So enjoy waiting

[Genz]

You should just all forget about producers. Focus on the director and the others members of the true developpement staff instead. (Yoshida is both, maybe it's why it's leading to confusion?)

(about PS2 limitations on FFXI : as far as I can remember - I think it was before the release of Aht Urhgan - they clearly stated they weren't limited in adding more inventory, but limited in making inventory of more than 80 items, which is still verified today)

[Shai]

Tanaka is working as a consultant on the project, read the letters he's still very much involved yoshi's job is communication and bringing satisfaction up.

About 2 seconds after it was suggested he wasn't a consultant, this was cleared up.

What I don't get is how do you know "he's very much involved?"

Where is this statement located? Which letter, interview, press release?

[SilvertearRen]

My opinion says Tanaka is good at world-building, but poor at gameplay implementation and listening to feedback. My money is on Tanaka working on expansion content, with Yoshi-P focusing on the core game.

[SilvertearRen]

I vote Yasumi Matsuno. The man behind FF Tactics, Vagrant Story, FF XII, Tactics Ogre.

This guy has experience with "multiplayer" game design, so he's the perfect choice for the FFXIV project when it comes to getting the nuts and bolts together. Too bad the Japanese company was as dumb a brick about it.

[Duelle]

While I recognize that Tanaka had a hand in what may be the best games ever created by Squaresoft, I think he's not right at home with MMOs. FFXI kind of proved this. That being said, I've decided to give Yoshida a chance. He's not dissapointed me as of yet (granted, I'm not frothing at the mouth for engame content and for this to become FFXI-2 like certain individuals have), so I say: why not?

[gifthorse]

...

It's only very recently (starting with announced Auto Attack and now another 6 week wait on Dungeons / Battle Systems) that I think about that last update post from Tanaka. The one about "player run guilds" and "ships." I wonder what he would have brought to the table in 6 months to flesh out this game that we still don't have because fans filled out a poll and now we're getting a new battle system. People like Pere admitting there were untapped potentials in the battle system that no one even understood or realized until recently (though I saw many of them around ... idk February? Too late for poor Tanaka. Too late for that poll that already decided the fate of the Battle System).

...

So if we're going to be in the dark, Tanaka-style, I'd rather have Tanaka. Though I still think Yoshida may have some magic to produce for the game, he's yet to prove it to me. He seems to just throw away the ideas I liked for ideas I don't like or am luke-warm about (auto-attack, I'm looking at you).

I think you touched on my main issues with Yoshida. People seem to act as if Tanaka is just so unscrupulous and devoid of development skill, but at least his update schedule had lots of interesting content in it, including a complete UI overhaul which was supposed to be here by now. Yoshida seems to bring a lot, but at the same time, he seems to destroy just as much. If not more. And in actual fact, I felt more hopeful and informed under Tanaka's leadership than I do presently under Yoshida's leadership.

At least with Tanaka you felt comfortable knowing that they would pursue their own vision and not be so fickle under the influence of poll results (polls which were obviously not created by someone who knows how to create polls). At least you knew where the game was headed (community and LS cooperation etc). Who knows where the hell Yoshi is taking the game now.

And the biggest problem with Yoshi and his polls is probably due to the way the polls were created (with leading questions and not enough options) that gave biased results in favour of specific features or answers. And im sure the polls did not reflect accurately the biggest problems in the game, in fact, I doubt they even reflected the biggest "perceived problems". Developing content in response to the polls is therefore totally unwise.

Sometimes a developer needs to know when to tell the community to "just stfu" in my opinion.

[gifthorse]

While I recognize that Tanaka had a hand in what may be the best games ever created by Squaresoft, I think he's not right at home with MMOs. FFXI kind of proved this. That being said, I've decided to give Yoshida a chance. He's not dissapointed me as of yet (granted, I'm not frothing at the mouth for engame content and for this to become FFXI-2 like certain individuals have), so I say: why not?

What so an MMO with features like NPC side quests which you can fully solo is more MMO-like than a game with features like Company Housing and Ships which involve community participation?

Please.

It was purely the fault of catering to the FF fans that screwed this game over in terms of making it an MMO. SE wanted to capture the solo single player RPG FF fans and that's why so much of the game has been centered around such players. The game needs less of this and more MMO content like Tanaka had in store.

Yoshi is not promising much community-related content with the small exception of some instanced dungeons (which is itself a spit in the face of MMO design). Instances turn games into entrance lobbies. An MMO is supposed to be a persistent world, by definition.

Tanaka said in an interview that they would not have instanced dungeons primarily because he wanted players to be playing in the same world. If anyone knew what an MMO was, it was Tanaka.

[Shiyo]

What so an MMO with features like NPC side quests which you can fully solo is more MMO-like than a game with features like Company Housing and Ships which involve community participation?

Please.

It was purely the fault of catering to the FF fans that screwed this game over in terms of making it an MMO. SE wanted to capture the solo single player RPG FF fans and that's why so much of the game has been centered around such players. The game needs less of this and more MMO content like Tanaka had in store.

Yoshi is not promising much community-related content with the small exception of some instanced dungeons (which is itself a spit in the face of MMO design). Instances turn games into entrance lobbies. An MMO is supposed to be a persistent world, by definition.

Tanaka said in an interview that they would not have instance dungeons primarily because he wanted players to be playing in the same world. If anyone knew what an MMO was, it was Tanaka.

Wow a post by you I actually agree with.