History repeats itself: Time for the Great Archer Nerf of 2011

[Xzen]

Hahaha oh really.
The viable solution is to cut their damage by 30% relative damage, or 6% absolute party contribution damage. I already have proposed the nerf. You just didn't understand it.

Truth is I already proposed a viable solution. You're just too biased, subjected, and affected to consider it "viable."

None of your ideas are viable. They've all been shot down. Not even by me. Well I should clarify that I shot them down AGAIN. You were already addressed years ago, at the last time we had this discussion. And you lost that.

No I understand you want archers to have little or no value in a pt so they have no reason to be in game perfectly well. You can reduce their damage but then you have to give them something else to make them viable again.

[Shampooo]

Hahaha oh really.
The viable solution is to cut their damage by 30% relative damage, or 6% absolute party contribution damage. I already have proposed the nerf. You just didn't understand it.

Truth is I already proposed a viable solution. You're just too biased, subjected, and affected to consider it "viable."

None of your ideas are viable. They've all been shot down. Not even by me. Well I should clarify that I shot them down AGAIN. You were already addressed years ago, at the last time we had this discussion. And you lost that.

thats not really a solution, thats just stating Class X should do Y less dmg. you need to look at the mechanics of the class and see where all the extra damage is coming from and correct that issue if you wanna correct something. you could start by posting your parser results. in my experience with on NMs archers light shot does the same or less damage than my lancer, the WS does less damage than my lancer. the only thing contributing to increased damage is the bomb on the bloodletter effect as well as multishoting raging strike. a proposed "fix" if there was one would be something like, change multishot to "Prep" or something that could only be used out of combat, and leave trifurcate intact since its on a cool down. that would lower the total damage output on archer.

[Peregrine]

Fact remains that 80% of you all in this thread haven't played MMOs enough to realize that ultimately, ranged attackers are always overpowered because they in fact aren't glass. They're invincible against AoEs that meleers can't avoid. You just can't put your love of archers into physical form. It remains some subconscious, undefined ether floating in your head.

And when that is chanllenged, as opposed to a logical reason why you like archer where you would just say well hell you're right...attacking the ether surrounding your understanding of archers' role in MMOs elicits some primal, diffuse rage that you can't help or control.

See archer for what it is. Inherently feral. It destroys native diversity if allowed to run unchecked. Nerf it.

[Peregrine]

No I understand you want archers to have little or no value in a pt so they have no reason to be in game perfectly well. You can reduce their damage but then you have to give them something else to make them viable again.

No, you don't. You're just spoiled. That's what it comes down to. Not even a year into the game and you already think you deserve what you have. No, you simply don't. They don't, and they won't, give them anything in return. You have your reward already.

[Physic]

thats what we had to do back in the day before they increased the SP so much.....and people still want more of an SP increase and fatigue gone lol =/

your on my server, i think you made the first tortoishell hora+1 for me, and HEeeeellll no i didnt do that 80 exp shiot. When i soloed, i looked for greens and yellows, i got like 100-300 sp solo, it took awhile, but 80 was just too low. But in parties? man i caked up, we were getting like 500 per kill, and killing fast, against mobs that could wipe us all if we played wrong, living on the edge for the mages cures to hit us after super weapon skills, or mass chaining puks and trying to dodge the aoes without killing the mages, because even the fast kill stuff was dangerous.

Oh yeah and setting the leves on difficult and sometimes getting owned, but when you found the right difficulty, exp was super cake.
course i stopped when they changed sp, because i quickly realized the first day, that i got as much or more killing coblyn than fighting for my life versus a wolf, and it wasnt even that much exp.

[Xzen]

Fact remains that 80% of you all in this thread haven't played MMOs enough to realize that ultimately, ranged attackers are always overpowered because they in fact aren't glass. They're invincible against AoEs that meleers can't avoid. You just can't put your love of archers into physical form. It remains some subconscious, undefined ether floating in your head.

And when that is chanllenged, as opposed to a logical reason why you like archer where you would just say well hell you're right...attacking the ether surrounding your understanding of archers' role in MMOs elicits some primal, diffuse rage that you can't help or control.

See archer for what it is. Inherently feral. It destroys native diversity if allowed to run unchecked. Nerf it.

Example of personal attack and a straw man. ^

I've been playing MMOs since UO. Again simply taking away ARC's damage when it's the only thing it's good for is not a solution. You can lower the damage but you have to give it some kind of support abilities if you do so.

[Peregrine]

thats not really a solution, thats just stating Class X should do Y less dmg. you need to look at the mechanics of the class and see where all the extra damage is coming from and correct that issue if you wanna correct something. you could start by posting your parser results. in my experience with on NMs archers light shot does the same or less damage than my lancer, the WS does less damage than my lancer. the only thing contributing to increased damage is the bomb on the bloodletter effect as well as multishoting raging strike. a proposed "fix" if there was one would be something like, change multishot to "Prep" or something that could only be used out of combat, and leave trifurcate intact since its on a cool down. that would lower the total damage output on archer.

That is the easiest solution. When you remove archers' ability to create phantom damaging slots in the 8 man party, you take away half their draw. The other half of their draw is that they don't take AoE damage. You've addressed that by explicitly designing the job to be weak to pay for that. Not defensively weak, that's stupid and pointless given the fact that you're not tanking. Offensively weak.

You think you deserve the right to be offensively powerful while defensively weak. That is an ASSININE development assumption. You don't GET hit, you ARE NOT defensively weak. Therefore that design is impotent.

The price for being out of damage range is to be OFFENSIVELY weak. Period. That is the only solution.

[Dranio]

First, I've read through every post, and I have to say, my brain started hurting not to far in. All I got out of it was one person raging because they have something against archers, one or two people who seems to agree with him who sounds sensible, and a bunch of others who are against it, at least for the moment, for various reasons.

Before Peregrine calls me out for "being yet another archer that wants to be overpowered", I don't play it because of the damage. I actually like ranged jobs. I'd play it even if it was the worst DD job.

I'm gonna go with the group that says wait for the battle system revamp, job/class system stuff, and the stat revamp stuff before calling for nerfs. Even if they're overpowered in this system, are you certain they will be in the new system? No, you can't say that because you haven't tried the new systems. wait for those then revisit the subject.

Also, if you honestly come back and call that invalid you just have no common sense whatsoever as you don't know if they even will be 'overpowered' as you say with the new system they're making. most likely with new formula's for damage calculation and such accompanying said update.

First and last time I post in this thread, my opinion and I stand by it.

[Peregrine]

Example of personal attack and a straw man. I've been playing MMOs since UO. Again simply taking away ARC's damage when it's the only thing it's good for is not a solution. You can lower the damage but you have to give it some kind of support abilities if you do so.

You obviously haven't been paying attention all this time. An archer is good for something else: staying out of AoE range. I mean if you can't even see that after a month of playing MMOs, no wonder I take this tone with you.

You're not a straw man. You JUST argued something that weak. I didn't make you up. You're actually real. Somehow.

[Xzen]

That is the easiest solution. When you remove archers' ability to create phantom damaging slots in the 8 man party, you take away half their draw. The other half of their draw is that they don't take AoE damage. You've addressed that by explicitly designing the job to be weak to pay for that. Not defensively weak, that's stupid and pointless given the fact that you're not tanking. Offensively weak.

You think you deserve the right to be offensively powerful while defensively weak. That is an ASSININE development assumption. You don't GET hit, you ARE NOT defensively weak. Therefore that design is impotent.

The price for being out of damage range is to be OFFENSIVELY weak. Period. That is the only solution.

That same logic could easily be turned on THM and CON. You think You deserve to be offensively powerful and fill the roll of healer in a party while being defensively weak?