Dragoon Thread, help discussions and more.

[Dervy]

Am I the only one who thinks our Jump abilities should also give us 100% evasion for the duration of the ability?

Yes they should. Unfortunately, I have A LOT of issues with the Dragoon. Another issue being Heavy Thrust buff being absolutely pointless. Another issue being the Dragoons Damage is actually, really mediocre despite the reduction in cooldowns times with the Jumps.

I'll eventually get a Thread going about all of the bs parts of a Dragoon and what needs to be fixed for it to stand out, because at the moment, I'd rather just roll as a BRD or a MNK

This thread has some great information, but now for my question. Has anyone had any trouble with the level 20 Lancer quest? I have tried it twice and Mr. Angry Elf keeps dying, any tips?

Kill the adds first.

[Rithien]

A lot of people are actually trying to say Dragoons are overpowered, but I think it's just because the other classes that can pool from our abilities (MNK, BRD) are still working on getting that to 50 and have not had time to level our class up to 34 to steal Blood for Blood =p.

Also what is wrong with Heavy Thrust, I haven't noticed anything quirky with it yet, other than the fact that most tanks are so fidgety when they tank I have to stun to make sure I can get the buff up or I risk "missing" the first one sometimes.

[SolRising]

Yes they should. Unfortunately, I have A LOT of issues with the Dragoon.

Hmm not sure why you would feel that way... DRG\\'s have the highest burst dmg... stack with LB you will easily hit for 4k lv1 9k lv2 single target . I have a brd also and from I can tell it doesn\\'t have as much burst. Killing adds is probably 2-3 times faster on my Drg than brd. BRD good for aoe but single target goes hands down to drg. The jumps areo to be saved for situations. Stun jump to catch up to distance mobs or cancel skills on bosses when leg sweep on CD. Aoe jump used for huge burst with adds on bosses then clean up with ring of thorns. The normal jump used for distance attack and return to previois spot to avoid charge dmg. Evasive jump to get away immediately when boss is about to aoe.

[CherryCream]

I now see what you mean. I ran out of tp real fast xD Looking for crit and determination now.

[MalcolmReynolds]

I now see what you mean. I ran out of tp real fast xD Looking for crit and determination now.

Invigorate as soon as you drop to 500 TP (600 if you don't have the level 36 Exhilarate trait) for best TP management. That way you'll be at full TP while waiting on Invigorate's cooldown to run out. I've yet to run out of TP this way even in long fights (granted I'm level 38 at the moment).

Another issue being Heavy Thrust buff being absolutely pointless.

I don't think it's pointless. A 10% damage increase for 20 seconds is pretty damn nice IMO.

Am I the only one who thinks our Jump abilities should also give us 100% evasion for the duration of the ability?

This is my biggest peeve with the way they designed Dragoon. Damage evasion was a key trait of Jump in several FF games and it logically makes sense since you're up in the air during the animation. It's kind of nuts that they haven't made it like this. And because the animation is fairly long, you have to be careful when you use it because if you hit it at the wrong time and an enemy starts charging an attack, chances are you're not getting out of the way in time. It really needs to be changed.

[CherryCream]

Invigorate as soon as you drop to 500 TP (600 if you don't have the level 36 Exhilarate trait) for best TP management. That way you'll be at full TP while waiting on Invigorate's cooldown to run out. I've yet to run out of TP this way even in long fights (granted I'm level 38 at the moment).

I see what you mean, Invigorate does help a lot. I'll see how it all goes when I reach 50, though.

[NanoMidgy]

Ok so, freshly 50 and according to all the skills I can use and their description, what do you think of :

1 - Impulse Drive > Disembowel > Chaos Trust > True Trust > Vorpal Trust > Full Thrust
2 - (then skip first part since Disembowel still up so: True Trust > Vorpal Trust > Full Thrust) X 3
Repeat #1 after doing x3 the second part

Also Power Surge + Spineshatter every 90 sec

Makes sense ? also when do you use the 2 offensive jumps ?

[MalcolmReynolds]

Ok so, freshly 50 and according to all the skills I can use and their description, what do you think of :

1 - Impulse Drive > Disembowel > Chaos Trust > True Trust > Vorpal Trust > Full Thrust
2 - (then skip first part since Disembowel still up so: True Trust > Vorpal Trust > Full Thrust) X 3
Repeat #1 after doing x3 the second part

Also Power Surge + Spineshatter every 90 sec

Makes sense ? also when do you use the 2 offensive jumps ?

The Chaos Thrust combo is a good one to start off with because of the piercing resistance debuff and the DOT. After that I would Heavy Thrust for the 10% extra damage then go into your Full Thrust combo (with your buff abilities used at your discretion, preferably while Disembowel and Heavy Thrust's effects are active). Power Surge makes more sense with regular Jump as it's 200 potency vs 170 for Spineshatter (unless you need the stun and Leg Sweep is on CD). This all of course while keeping your Phlebotomize and Fracture DOTS up.

[Dervy]

I don't think it's pointless. A 10% damage increase for 20 seconds is pretty damn nice IMO.

It "seems" nice. In all honesty, it's weak. Yeah, you can agree it's 20 seconds and its on the GDC so you can instant pop-it. I guess that's how they balanced it, but it's CRAP. Now let's do some math. For this example, we'll use Valkkys Damage Calculator (http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=202)

So, let's make a 10s combo. We can use 4 GDC skills. One will be with Heavy Thrust. The other will be replaced with another True thrust. We're basing this off 363 Strength, 238 Determination, with a Gae Bolg (44 WD)

Without Heavy thrust

True Thrust - 207.93
Vorpal Thrust - 277.24
Full Thrust - 415.86
True Thrust - 207.93

Total = 1108.96


WITH Heavy Thrust

You have to remember that the 10% from Heavy Thrust applies AFTER you've used the skill. So, let's do the math (Note I'm only adding avg. dmg)

Heavy Thrust - 138.28 DMG
(*now buff applies*)
True Thrust - 228.72
Vorpal Thrust - 304.96
Full Thrust - 457.44

Total = 1129.4

This is way less than a 10% increase in damage in 10 seconds. Yes, that 20 damage could very well be a very killing factor, which does add-up over the course of a lengthy fight; If the fight is 15 minutes long, that's an extra 1800 damage in a fight.

Now of course, this is an unrealistic scenario, as we can use our Jumps in between our Rotations. But one is only every 40 seconds (300 potency), a 250 potency every 3 minutes, and a 170 potency every 90 seconds. This does add-up, but is Heavy Thrust even "worthy" of a buff? No. Maybe in longer fights like Primals. But for doing dungeons where the boss only takes 5 minutes of your time? Wouldn't even bother, the buff is so tiny.

15% would actually be much better.

[Chompers]

So, let's make a 10s combo.

The simplest way to tell you this is that you are wrong and you should stop doing math. A) The buff last 20 seconds not 10 seconds so a 10 second sample for parsing examples is retarded. If you were to do this shit combo example over a 20 second period of the time the difference is more like 200 damage. B) given that its 20 seconds you wouldn't be using just vanilla BS true thrust rotation over and over you have to take into account that you have rotations like Chaos Thrust with better potency AND armor pen debuffs and you have a crapload of off GCD damage buffs that would scale with this over the course of the 20 seconds as well AND DoTs that benefit.