Any chance of an official data parser so we can test our character builds?

[BlaiseLallaise]

That is a brilliant rebuttal. I am left with no response. I just hope that in the end 2 STR really doesn't make enough of a difference to matter.

[Kirith]

That is a brilliant rebuttal. I am left with no response. I just hope that in the end 2 STR really doesn't make enough of a difference to matter.

It's sophistry. A stat system is supposed to matter. A stat system where differences in stats don't matter is broken by definition. A parser will erase all experimenting with stats and wipe certain builds from existence. It will indeed remove all doubt from what's best. You will strive towards only one setup as DPS, only one setup as tank, etc.

That she can divide her stats by 90 is an intended feature of the system. However, having more STR should by any logic make you stronger. The point of this stat system was to make people chose whether they want to do 100% physical damage and throw everything they have in STR, or make a hybrid DD class and divide stats between STR, INT, etc... but evidently it is somewhat broken.

You don't need a parser to know any of that. If the system worked, a 150 STR person and a 75 STR 75 INT person would still deliver the same damage or have different playing advantages in the field.

A parser simply cuts experimentation out and forces everyone to choose the nominally higher damage builds, so when the system works and you make a hybrid class, you will see the classic parser junkie come into your party and say:
"You're gimp, i'm PARSING the fight", because while you got the skills you liked and played with making your ideal hybrid class, he has followed the build he found on a forum and can now deliver more damage per hour than you, even though he gets enmity at every blow (and brags about it) and forces the healer to go the extra mile to keep him alive, since parser junkies only care about parsing what matters to them.

A parser is simply a way to give elitists the cold data to support their endless bragging and annoying other people. The game is supposed to have "A good fighter" and "an okay fighter" with people realizing STR is what makes them stronger and striving to try different things to make them more effective in battle, not making builds like robots to be either "a LEET fighter" or "a GIMP fighter."

[Augury]

The problem with parsers is that it's always assumed that the numbers supplied by them are significant differences without much consideration other than for "power leveling" and DPS, while this game is designed so that there is little permanence thus far promoting almost everything as a viable means of play. The unintended effect of such things is to stigmatize the game community by having players try to sect themselves as "hardcores".

However, this bound to happen no matter what- so it has no harm for simple calculation's sake, though I certainly hope SquEnix is investing in such for their own testing to tweak and adjust things as needed to make a broad scope of value with no "best" in sight.

Point is- Though it's bad for a game community, it's an inevitability, legal or not. Thus, it's probably best for SquEnix that they let the players do the hard-testing for them and make all the calculations they want.

[Kurokikaze]

I approve of this.

Dont be a fool thinking that this idea is bad because it promotes elitism. That elitism will be there regardless. Us min-maxers on BG will figure out the best possible combinations for everything and people will run with it. This'll just make the task easier.

[Augury]

I approve of this.

Dont be a fool thinking that this idea is bad because it promotes elitism. That elitism will be there regardless. Us min-maxers on BG will figure out the best possible combinations for everything and people will run with it. This'll just make the task easier.

Precisely, it's the player's purpose to find the most suitable ranges for certain effects, and the designer's purpose to broaden such as much as possible. If we try to call it bad or immoral, then we sacrifice the development of the game as a whole because we want to avoid elitism. If we learn such things and present them to the developers, our information and insight can guide them to make a game which doesn't need "elitism".

[Peregrine]

Parsers don't kill experimenting, they facilitate it and improve it. They make testing and experimenting objective and functional instead of biased and subjective. In fact, a parser would help you experiment with stats and certain builds to legitimize them. The alternative is that the player who balks at "cookie cutting" is the sole determinant of how viable their "unique" combination is, which is inherently biased and other players will pick up on and discriminate against that bias to the point where the setup gets MORE flak than it actually deserves just to prove a point.

It's easy to discriminate against setups that look gimp, but harder to discriminate against setups that hold their own on the parser even though they look ridiculous. No one makes fun of setups that perform nominally lower than the established setups as long as there is novel benefit to the combination. The parser doesn't tell us much about your setup that we didn't already know, really. It just validates it objectively.

You may pitch to us a red mage who nukes like a mage and melees like a DD. You may say you do a lot of damage after "experimenting with it." We see your nukes hitting for 85 and your melee hits wailing at a whopping average of 9 per hit, and while the 3 dds are each doing 28% of the damage, you're doing 10%, which is 4% more than the whm casting banish intermittently when they're bored. The parser tells us what we already know: that a RDM/WAR is not even half a meleer and not even half a mage, so we're better off getting a full one of either.

If your "experiments" validate your odd combination without a parser, but if a parser would be the end of your odd combination, then your experiments are invalid. The parser should back up your experiments, not crush them.

[Peregrine]

The problem with parsers is that it's always assumed that the numbers supplied by them are significant differences without much consideration other than for "power leveling" and DPS, while this game is designed so that there is little permanence thus far promoting almost everything as a viable means of play. The unintended effect of such things is to stigmatize the game community by having players try to sect themselves as "hardcores".

This is true. The current game has very little use for a parser, because almost nothing you do matters. In an 8 man NM fight, all of your DDS will parse within +- 2% of each other in party contribution unless they are a ranger. It's always DD1 17.5%. DD2 18%. DD3 19%. DD4 10% but they're the ones that start the regimens so they have a lot of inaction time. Mage 1: 20%. Mage 2: 21%. Tank: 1% Healer: 1%. Again, nothing we didn't already know, but the frustrating part is that Mage 1 has a +1 Jade Crook, vintage robe, and blended stats under 100, and mage 2 has a jade crook+3, seer's cowl, and pumped >130 stats in int and pie. Stats and gear almost do not matter. Certainly "subs" don't matter. I can have cure III on my bar if I want and it doesn't my DD output at all while still retaining the ability to cure for 500+ on marauder because I don't need 140 str on marauder to max out its power output.

However, I think this system's about to get the boot because of the generic battles it's creating. The end of this generic path is--everyone is an archer with cure III and siphon MP. There. Everyone is everything now. Tank. Healer. DD. Everyone's every woman. It's all in them. Get hit? Hit your enmity - skills and let someone else get hit while another archer cure III's you. Win.

If the stat system tightens up like they already said is a problem, and if the jobs have more of a specific role then those stats and those roles will need to be objectively verified for quality. And in that new system, I think a parser will have more of a function.

[Physic]

theres a difference between 10% of people with third party programs and etc saying you suck look at the parse, and it being an official part of the game.
parse doesnt speak to a lot of intangibles, like hate management, damage avoided (there are actually a lot of skills that you can avoid positionally) debuffs etc, putting a parse is officially telling people these are the factors on which you should judge yourself, and we encourage you and other people to judge each other, thats why we have this tool built in to the game.

Its a pretty bad idea.

[Peregrine]

theres a difference between 10% of people with third party programs and etc saying you suck look at the parse, and it being an official part of the game.
parse doesnt speak to a lot of intangibles, like hate management, damage avoided (there are actually a lot of skills that you can avoid positionally) debuffs etc, putting a parse is officially telling people these are the factors on which you should judge yourself, and we encourage you and other people to judge each other, thats why we have this tool built in to the game.

Its a pretty bad idea.

But...they are factors by which you should judge yourself and others. If this is a stock race and we're all driving the same cars, that's great too. I like the idea of judging performance strictly by gameplay. But this isn't a stock racing genre. People have different stats and different builds. There will always be differences that need more appropriate tools of comparison than biased subjectivity, otherwise you get discriminatory ignorance and fanboyist loyalism.

You're straight up talking about feedback relating to your effectiveness as a fighter and a mage. So many people play all those "intangibles" you mention wrong because they're not getting feedback on their performance compared to others except when some elitist blows up on them.

Give them the parser. Just knowing their DPS is lower than their friend will raise it. Seeing that their attacks hit for less than the same lancer with no loss in accuracy improves their game--maybe they have too much accuracy on.

When you let 10% of the population walk all over you by shunning the tools they spend time with to get better, it's no surprise that they beat your contribution to the party by 15% and are mad at your performance. You can't beat someone by 15% if they're not doing more than one thing wrong, either in terms of gear or how they play the job. Not even caring how you're doing is the first wrong thing, and it makes a player at least 5% down already.

Just running parsers and seeing your performance makes your performance go up. So much moreso in this game than in XI where your playstyle determines your effectiveness as a fighter more than in XI, and a SE-developed tool could tell you all of that information.

It should not be a tool used by the elitie to forge their elitism over a community that doesn't have the information. Give all players that information. Who are the marauders and conjurers who aren't interested in how they're doing? Give them a fishing pole!

Parse data raises player knowledge about the world they live in and the job they play.
Parse data raises player performance just by reviewing them.
They add reason and sensibility to a world otherwise run by bias and ignorance.
That they will be used by players anyway isn't even an argument to add them officially. They should be added officially because they're beneficial tools that players want.

[Physic]

Well let me put it like this, you add an official parser, your saying as the developer, this game is about beating your friends in parsing. It becomes a car race game.

if people want to add thier own little mini games, or goals to defeat someone else or do more damage, of course you cant control that, but its not officially what the game is about. Right now, in theory an mmorpg is supposed to be about exploring/adventuring in a large world with other people and developing your charachter. Putting in the parse will change the focus, and no one can even say the game isnt all about a parse, cause then the response would be, yeah it is, they put in the game.

What might be interesting though, if they did implement some parsing, would be in terms of a training area or zone, where you can basically test your gear/skills/set up. That way people seeking to test thier builds, or see if an item is worth it can, while not exactly putting it into every situation.

Competition is amusing though, so it would be interesting if they added it to some competetive events. one team versus the other, could see while completing the same content, a breakdown afterwards of the key data. But i would put this in seperate venues from like experience and quests, and major content, and story elements. Also i would have various modes, like time attack, survival, versus Hardcore monsters, sweeping regular mobs.

I mean looking at your dps versus bones when your a monk, and dragoons on colibris, its really not the whole story.