Yoshida-san, Where's the Challenge? Where are the Real Changes? END GAME Content?

[Kallera]

Having to intentionally gimp onesself just so that one can find some sort of challege is in a game that should have it is bad game design.

For example: Legend of Zelda low heart run games.

Again I point to the flame drakes and Ixali fencers, and redwing keds and emerald salamanders, go get em!.

[Zelito]

After reading all these posts, this one and other similar threads, it seems to me that the playerbase is divided into two groups.

1) Paid money and expects that the developers will deliver content to make it continue to be enjoyable.

2) Sees the lack of subscription fees as a redesign and views the current stage as essentially a reopened beta.

I for one believe that they released a game they had no business releasing, and have placed it back into the beta stage. They will work to fix it as well as to fill in the world with missing content. No one is paying anything for this game outside of the original purchase.. And from the sounds of it, the people demanding end-game content have already gotten much more than their $50 out of this game relative to what a different game of that price would charge.

I recently picked the game up for $25 or so and view it essentially as payment to join a beta. They are fixing it. But, because it is free, they do not need to play by the normal rules. Most people won't leave permanently because with no subscription fee, people can come back at will. When companies are introduced, if they are great content, many of the people who 'permanently quit' will return, since there is no barrier preventing them.

SE's best play at this point is to use this phase as a real beta, listen closely to the player base for the overall way the game is laid out, and continue to integrate content at a time table that is practical, knowing that the sooner it becomes a developed game with real content, the sooner they can start to charge a subscription.

There is no point to end-game content right now if you are bypassing the main game redesigns, since it all would have to be fixed/altered or would become obsolete when things change (I know I'm overly simplifying this.. but focusing on end-game now is a horrible idea).

To all who are disappointed with lack of stuff to do, fortunately there is no subscription so you can find something else to share your time while the game is developing.

I'm not calling anyone out in this post. I really am trying to point out how I see the game, and possibly try to help others with their expectations.

[Krausus]

This is true, but that was 11 years ago.

This game was in development for 5 years. 5 years. And they had all the accumulated experience and knowledge from creating and running FF11, yet they couldn't transfer any of that knowledge into making FF14 a good game from the very beginning? What in the world were they doing for those 5 years, anyway?

I give SE the benefit of the doubt for the most part, but there had to have been some serious problems with efficiency and development for this game to have the problems that it has even though the very same company has been running a hugely successful MMO for the past 11 years.

They still have time to turn it around, but that time is running out fast.


The problem with that, is that those of us who have stuck it out since launch have done pretty much everything there is to do in this game.

I believe a large chunk of that time was developing the engine from ground up and tools in order to develop the game, I believe that the game really only had about 3 years of development.

[Betelgeuzah]

XI's development came to a halt at around the end of 2007 when WoTG launched. We know that both games are developed in a parallel in the SE's third division led by Tanaka (even now, and moreso pre-release).

The usual development cycle for SE's games is around 2 years. The crystal tools games being the exceptions, due to the engine's initial shortcomings.

Does this game look like 5 years of work has gone into it? Three at max, if you ask me. The rest of the time was used to bring the engine up to the task, if that.

This would make for an interesting topic to discuss in the letter of the producer. Although I'm not sure how long Yoshida has been around.

[Dreamer]

I find myself rather annoyed by the consistent call for 'end-game content'. Final Fantasy has always been about the journey, not the destination. With that in mind, the game needs many infusions of content at ALL levels, not just the top ranks. As many jobs as there are in the game, and the fact that to max them all, you're essentially going to always been leveling, unless they don't increase the cap within the next four years (which I doubt will be the case).

With that in mind, providing more content at all levels, and adhering to this methodology as they continue to design new content, will do as much or more to keep players entertained as any amount of 'end-game' content. =(^.^)=

[Kiara]

After reading all these posts, this one and other similar threads, it seems to me that the playerbase is divided into two groups.

1) Paid money and expects that the developers will deliver content to make it continue to be enjoyable.

2) Sees the lack of subscription fees as a redesign and views the current stage as essentially a reopened beta.

I for one believe that they released a game they had no business releasing, and have placed it back into the beta stage. They will work to fix it as well as to fill in the world with missing content. No one is paying anything for this game outside of the original purchase.. And from the sounds of it, the people demanding end-game content have already gotten much more than their $50 out of this game relative to what a different game of that price would charge.

I recently picked the game up for $25 or so and view it essentially as payment to join a beta. They are fixing it. But, because it is free, they do not need to play by the normal rules. Most people won't leave permanently because with no subscription fee, people can come back at will. When companies are introduced, if they are great content, many of the people who 'permanently quit' will return, since there is no barrier preventing them.

SE's best play at this point is to use this phase as a real beta, listen closely to the player base for the overall way the game is laid out, and continue to integrate content at a time table that is practical, knowing that the sooner it becomes a developed game with real content, the sooner they can start to charge a subscription.

There is no point to end-game content right now if you are bypassing the main game redesigns, since it all would have to be fixed/altered or would become obsolete when things change (I know I'm overly simplifying this.. but focusing on end-game now is a horrible idea).

To all who are disappointed with lack of stuff to do, fortunately there is no subscription so you can find something else to share your time while the game is developing.

I'm not calling anyone out in this post. I really am trying to point out how I see the game, and possibly try to help others with their expectations.

Hi Zelito,

Thanks for your thoughts. Well-stated.

I definitely agree with you and perhaps I should've have separated my original post into 2 separate threads, but my original point #1 is what you're talking about for sure: Those core systems, the fundamental parts of the game.

All we can really do is just wait, but these forums are a place for discussion (agreement and disagreement), and the hopes of the development team hearing some feedback about the game as their developing this "beta."

[zaviermhigo]

Well I played in the beta, so for those of you who just bought the game and are playing now and "are fine with it being beta", I'm not, because at the end of the beta they told me I was gonna have new stuff to do, and I didn't. It took 2 months I believe to even get class quests. How can you be okay with a game that is out on the retail market..being in beta, that is economic nonsense. They had an alpha, a closed beta 1, a closed beta 2, and an open beta. This is 7 months after release....

[SilvertearRen]

Having to intentionally gimp onesself just so that one can find some sort of challege is in a game that should have it is bad game design.

For example: Legend of Zelda low heart run games.

Kallera just gave you a new challenge. GO DO IT.

Seriously, are you stupid? This is a game that's being redeveloped. Redeveloped. Into a new, more proper iteration of an MMO.

We all paid for the game discs. Now they're giving us a free "extended" beta period, which ends God knows when, and they are actually listening to us for feedback. So yes, this is a game that launched when it shouldn't have, and was promptly put back into "beta" phase.

There's enough high end content for people to throw themselves at if they feel like being suicidal - has anyone ever successfully taken down a Rank 70 Fallen Captain? No? There's a challenge for you. Go do it. Has anyone ever taken down a Spinesnap Ogre with just one Gladiator and Thaumaturge? No? Go do it. Has anyone ever taken down a Garlean Behemoth? No? I dare you to go do it.

[zaviermhigo]

Kallera just gave you a new challenge. GO DO IT.

Seriously, are you stupid? This is a game that's being redeveloped. Redeveloped. Into a new, more proper iteration of an MMO.

We all paid for the game discs. Now they're giving us a free "extended" beta period, which ends God knows when, and they are actually listening to us for feedback. So yes, this is a game that launched when it shouldn't have, and was promptly put back into "beta" phase.

There's enough high end content for people to throw themselves at if they feel like being suicidal - has anyone ever successfully taken down a Rank 70 Fallen Captain? No? There's a challenge for you. Go do it. Has anyone ever taken down a Spinesnap Ogre with just one Gladiator and Thaumaturge? No? Go do it. Has anyone ever taken down a Garlean Behemoth? No? I dare you to go do it.

Not that I disagree with your notion of harder stuff being there. Why can't the beginning and middle of the game be a bit more challenging too. People who played XI were used to challenge all the time (or potential challenge, because someone effed up), compared to other mmos out at the time. During the initial leveling process challenge is harder to find, it does exist, but its rare. Some leves are harder and require more strategy, but after a while everyone does the same leves and knows where the danger lies. So whatever challenge was there is quickly erased with experience. Most mmos have this, I'll admit that too, and I'm not a game designer so I don't know how to get around this issue, but I did feel like in just normal ranking up, there should be a bit more challenge. I haven't tried guildleves with 8 man on 5 stars yet, so I won't make a judgement about its difficulty.

[Krausus]

Well I played in the beta, so for those of you who just bought the game and are playing now and "are fine with it being beta", I'm not, because at the end of the beta they told me I was gonna have new stuff to do, and I didn't. It took 2 months I believe to even get class quests. How can you be okay with a game that is out on the retail market..being in beta, that is economic nonsense. They had an alpha, a closed beta 1, a closed beta 2, and an open beta. This is 7 months after release....

2 months to get class quests?