Please give Paladin access to Pugilist skill tree instead of Conjurer.

[niwaar]

What I see happening is the Def and M.Def buff from Protect becoming baseline, with some other perk replacing the trait CNJ currently has. Never occurred to me that SCH would miss out on Pro/Shell.

Honestly, I hope not.Personally, I dislike the fact they flat got rid of Shell as its own spell. Yes it was merged because its simpler, but there was always something that made you feel good in XI when you saw the Pro & Shell animation ticking one by one across your party. That being said, I would rather see traits that effect your subjob abilities. Most jobs have a select few abilities that they gain access to via their cross-class. Paladin is not the only one who is stuck with less than stellar spells and some Jobs/Classes could use traits that change/buff/etc to make these abilities more fun and useful. Traiting Pro/Shell would be a step in the right direction.

Yet I would like to see traits that enhance abilities specifically for their use on other Jobs. Having a trait that changes Cure to cost more, produce more threat (1:1), change its potency to be effected by attack power (like the change to Second Wind), change the cast time to be faster to allow for movement and change the recast time. The spell can be the same but function in a manner that allows it to be an intricate part of the Paladin kit.

The real problem is that unlike the Physical classes, the Magic classes really have some of the poorest cross class abilities available for other jobs. Summoner and Scholar are stuck with CNJ as well. Scholar gains... a poor version of Protect just as WHM does. The rest are spells they already have in other forms. Want Raise? I already have Resurrection. Want Cure? I already have Physick. Want Stoneskin? I already have various cure's and abilities that give damage absorption that are more efficient in both resource and time. For Summoner what are you going to do with those 4 spells when your main goal is to do damage? Aero you say? Maybe... ok, but if that is the whole purpose of CNJ for SMN ... give me a break. Allow some of these to have Job traits buffing them and we may have something.

[Taskun56]

...other jobs are enjoying essential cross-class skills that enhance their role in almost every situation. As it stands right now, none of the Conjurer skills enhance a Paladin, which is a big handicap in comparison to other jobs.

To clarify things for you, the Paladin is a white knight with holy benediction. As far as Lore goes this Job will (I mean, SHOULD) never receive Pugilist cross-skills because it is not in line with the character. To give you a more technically sound reason the Paladin's job is a main tank. Their "Cure" spell is a formality of their benediction. It is more of a self-support tool for questing, leves, perhaps emergency healing (to a much lesser extent).

As far as endgame material, the Paladin should not be wasting his time curing himself because his job is that of a tank. You have a healer designated to the tanks for a reason. This aside, things should stay as they are and most of the FF community will agree.

[Eldarion18]

To clarify things for you, the Paladin is a white knight with holy benediction. As far as Lore goes this Job will (I mean, SHOULD) never receive Pugilist cross-skills because it is not in line with the character. To give you a more technically sound reason the Paladin's job is a main tank. Their "Cure" spell is a formality of their benediction. It is more of a self-support tool for questing, leves, perhaps emergency healing (to a much lesser extent).

As far as endgame material, the Paladin should not be wasting his time curing himself because his job is that of a tank. You have a healer designated to the tanks for a reason. This aside, things should stay as they are and most of the FF community will agree.

That's all fine and dandy but if you're gonna completely stick with lore, being a Paladin has even less to do with Conjurer since that class deals with "conjuring the elements". The lore has been garbled up between Conjurer and Thaumaturge (which was previously a discipline of Life and Death) ever since they decided to split the elements up between the two so it hardly applies in this scenario.

[Taskun56]

It still has application in the fact that Conjurer is the devoted healing class for the first half of the game. This is supported by the Duty finder deciding roles of classes which are, ultimately, not healers despite having a few healing abilities.

Regardless, I think you are entitled to your opinion, but I do not see them making this change so close to launch with such little input on the matter.

[Tannlore]

Lorewise, I just can't see a sultansworn joining the Pugilist guild. As for Conjurer being better lore wise? Well, the conjurers are about protecting people and the elements. The sultansworn are about protecting people as well and upholding honor. I think they may share a fair deal more than might seem. After all, you can cure without supplication to the elements themselves. Just look at a certain npc who wants nothing to do with them and is, in fact, a powerful conjurer.

And if anything Gladiator (a in for themselves, glory and riches through the colosseum) is very different story wise from the Sultansworn (dutiful protectors with sword and shield)

Perhaps now, we will see a different story, one that links conjurer and Paladin more?

[Sotek]

Why can't the just fix Cure (or any spell) for Disciples of War? They're going to have to do this sooner or later, Jobs like Red Mage and Dark Knight are built around being melee/magic hybrids... At this rate they're going to end up melee with crappy magic, or magic with pointless melee... And Bard having Pugilist skills? Sigh... Internal Release is nice, I guess.

Seriously, would it be so hard to just boost the Magic Damage on certain Classes weapons? It's not like it would be used for anything else, boost the Magic Damage on Bows and Swords and what does that do? Fixes Cure for Disciples of War and maybe means some elemental damage attacks (Windbite? Honestly not sure on this) need rebalancing... Honestly, what is the point in Cure being a cross-class skill for Disciples of War if it is going to be so worthless?

[Xikeroth]

Why can't the just fix Cure (or any spell) for Disciples of War? They're going to have to do this sooner or later, Jobs like Red Mage and Dark Knight are built around being melee/magic hybrids... At this rate they're going to end up melee with crappy magic, or magic with pointless melee... And Bard having Pugilist skills? Sigh... Internal Release is nice, I guess.

Seriously for RDM I think they will have to create an entirely new class specific for hybrid jobs... None of the current jobs even fit as far as a real RDM goes.

Cure is already better for Gladiator/Paladin than it is for the majority of DoW classes.

[JamesTiberius]

I completely agree that conjurer(white magic) is a big part of the PLD lore, and that PLD isn't related to pugilist in any way, but I don't think that cure should be just a "formality." I think white magic should play a bigger role in tanking. Cure should be a serious tool, and it should be worth using. I don't want FFXI part 2, but I think that XI did a very good job with the PLD job. The XI PLD had access to divine magic, healing magic and enhancing magic, and it was the lazy paladin that didn't make good use of these spells.

[Xikeroth]

@niwaar

WHM gets proshell. Its directly from Conjurer. Everything Conjurer has, WHM will also have, every spell and trait. So WHM's protect will be better than SCH's as it will also have shell. Its the same for every job. They have every skill and trait their original class has as far as we know.

To be entirely honest not many cross-class skills would do some classes any good. BLM and WHM get almost everything they need from their base class there is nothing from any other class other than other DoM That would even help WHM. They don't really need anything else. BLM gets a cure via Arcanist which is a good thing, but again other than the crit+ from pugilist. I don't think anything else would help.

PLD would get useful skills from pugilist, however. It has higher MND by default than any other DoW class. Its cure is higher than the rest. PLD getting pugilist skills would only make it more unbalanced in PLD's favor. I would rather balance in this game since FFXI never had any.

[Xikeroth]

I completely agree that conjurer(white magic) is a big part of the PLD lore, and that PLD isn't related to pugilist in any way, but I don't think that cure should be just a "formality." I think white magic should play a bigger role in tanking. Cure should be a serious tool, and it should be worth using. I don't want FFXI part 2, but I think that XI did a very good job with the PLD job. The XI PLD had access to divine magic, healing magic and enhancing magic, and it was the lazy paladin that didn't make good use of these spells.

I agree that conjurer should stay a part of PLD, but I disagree that cure be a major role in tanking. It shouldn't be the lifeblood of tanking and shouldn't be needed to keep hate. Lets keep FFXI different from FFXIV shall we? They are not the same game thankfully. FFXI has little to no job balance :/... Don't want that repeated here