Let's keep Character Crossovers from other Square-Enix titles out of FFXIV.

[PSxpert2011]

I totally found Palam and Porom(FFIV)... they totally have the tails for the role XD

So... Faris, can I has it? Please! Cross-Over FTW!!!

[Fatestorm]

How is incorporating previous popular FF characters crossing a line. Darth Vader? How do you even come to that conclusion? If anything it will be something SE came up with.

It was hyperbole, which I used to illustrate the fundamental point I was making--there is a line between "whatever is fun for the consumer" on the one hand and "this is ridiculous" on the other--as a step to the further argument, that people might rationally disagree as to where to draw that line. You obviously missed the point of the hyperbole, and took it for a serious argument. My apologies; I don't really think a Star Wars crossover is in the works. But I don't think I can make my original point any clearer either.

You come off as very condescending and with no right. If SE wants to place Vivi into the game for a certain event, more power to them. I am sure people will enjoy seeing it. You need to take it easy.

I don't intend to be condescending, but rather precise (goodness knows it's too easy to slip into verbosity). May I ask, condescending toward whom or what? I've said many times I respect Yoshi and his team; and am a fan of this game and the franchise; and that I'm not telling anyone what they are or aren't allowed to enjoy; that I'm just expressing my own opinion; and so on. And to you personally, I said that I respected your opinion even as I proceeded to disagree with it. However, I'd appreciate it if you would stop assuming things about my mental and emotional states; and telling me what I ought or ought not do. Ad hominems are fair game sometimes; but here it implies you're unwilling to attack my arguments and so attack me personally instead.

The irony isn't lost on me, in your first post, that when you say:

People on these forums spend too much time dictating what should and shouldn't be done. Just enjoy the game.

You bewail (presumably me) 'dictating' to people 'what should and shouldn't be done' on the forums; and them in the very next sentence utter your very own imperative.

[Mjollnir]

I hope that over the next thirteen years, they run a limited time event (a voidwarp or something) that brings in a character or characters from each of the numbered FF titles in reverse sequence. It would be really nice if it were subscriber-voted too. Part of FFXIV's uniqueness as an FF game can be this whole crossover thing (as others in this thread have already mentioned).

Tabletop D&D did it from '94 to '97 with the Planescape setting; it encouraged a lot of fans from the other D&D worlds to try it out. In itself, Planescape had its own awesome artwork and incredible challenges, monsters, stories, adventures and roleplaying opportunities. It went on to spawn a pretty good CCG and arguably the best (I'd argue that - but it's certainly in the top 10 of any RPG list) computer RPG in Planescape: Torment.

Yeah, you can look at it as a marketing ploy, but everything can have a marketing spin on it if you want it to. And why should S-E sit on their history of rich stories and characters instead of capitalising on their legacy?

So with my starting point in mind, roll on 2016 when Aradjiah, Mindartia and Quon are revealed to be the continents on the other side of Hydaelyn and we go visit Prishe who's been stuck on the moon, alone, for thousands of years.

[Fatestorm]

How do you know? Are you privy to some behind the scenes dealings that the rest of us aren't?

I don't, and I said as much in my post.

with the understanding that I can't prove any of this or don't know for a fact that this is the case

It's just what I think is the case. And I openly admit my hermeneutic of suspicion, so I suppose you're perfectly within your rights to be suspicious of me in turn. At any rate, whether my suspicion is true or not is completely immaterial to the substantive argument that I make in my OP.

I think this is a product of poor translation more than anything. I think what Yoshi is saying that characters who can't travel worlds (due to being dead or incapacitated) will not show up in FFXIV. Everyone else is fair game.

...

And here's where I fundamentally disagree with you. You come from a position that crossovers must be fundamentally bad. I come from a position that crossovers are neither bad nor good, but how well they are written. There are certainly bad crossover events, where one party is overshadowed or overplayed by another, but there are also good crossovers where both parties play well with each other, and highlight their strengths beautifully. A good example of this is in this crossover between Aladdin and Hercules. JLA/Avengers is also a good example of a good crossover. I can think of a few others, but for the sake of brevity, I'll choose to omit those. In short, and to repeat myself, crossovers are not inherently bad, but it does depend heavily on who's doing the writing.

I'd like to say that I appreciate your reply, as I actually agree with most of what you say. These two paragraphs help to bring out where we disagree more concretely. To your examples of successful crossovers, I would say--I don't know if I agree with you or not, I would really have to think about it more. I mean, Aladdin/Hercules and the Avengers were certainly successful... but they are arguably after different objectives than high fantasy (general audience entertainment/action/superhero on the one hand; high drama on the other). I'm not saying I've got it completely figured out though; I'd have to think about it some more.

But concretely, you suggest that any character who "can't traverse worlds", because dead or incapacitated, is fair game for crossover. If true, I have to say, I recoil in horror at the concept; as I thought that Yoshi's 'guarantee' to us to do these crossovers with integrity would call for more restraint than that. But in talking about this, I've put my finger on one of the things I dislike about crossovers in a high fantasy like this--this idea of "traversing worlds" altogether.

Again, this is coming more from a 'storytelling' perspective and not a substantive perspective of 'how' do these people cross worlds. And my reason is because crossovers take another crucial storytelling element--setting--and either jettison or deform it. Any given story is a tapestry--plot and character are the most important, but other things like setting, tone, (sometimes) music, spectacle, are also indispensable. In some cases, a crossover takes the character from one world and jettisons him or her from his native plot and native setting into a foreign one. So in this scenario, the character is perpetually a fish out of water. In other cases--which you seem to allude to--two realms are joined--two stories which were originally separate are stitched together and there is an actual attempt to make a unity where there was once duality.

Yoshi has said that he is going after the latter. I can't help but think that most any attempt cannot help but do some of the former. I think of when I played the first Kingdom Hearts, and met--to use just the first example that comes to my head--Squall in that game. KH Squall is a downright caricature of himself in FF8. The only way the character has any depth at all is to pretend that he's a character in this game only, in this setting only, and bracket out what you know about him elsewhere. While simultaneously being unable to do precisely that; because the game is counting on your previous knowledge of him as a crutch for your emotional investment in him at all. All of which, imo, isn't good storytelling.

That said, it is possible to do a good job melding worlds. I still have to insist that there is a fundamental difference between a story conceived and written as a unity on the one hand, and two stories retconned and stitched together to form a unity on the other. But even so, you can do a good or a bad job with the stitches.

Since Yoshi's already said that he's gonna do it, the best I can hope for is that he does do a good job with the stitches, and that he doesn't attach it to the main questline.

[Aish]

I don't intend to be condescending, but rather precise.

I think he meant that it sounds like you're standing on your soap-box and giving us a lecture on why crossovers are bad and why they should never happen, because you think they're bad. The main rub is that it seems like your entire premise is "Cross-overs should never happen. Here's why: (Subjective list)" rather than "If they're going to do this cross-over they should keep in mind this to preserve the integrity of the story: (Subjective list)" since, let's not forget, you did admit that you would have less problems if it did not intrude upon the main story.

I guess it's more that it seems like you're trying to take away something that some people like, instead of asking that it be melded into something acceptable to you, the latter of which would draw way less...resistance to it.

(general audience entertainment/action/superhero on the one hand; high drama on the other).

Pretty sure that Yoshi clearly stated he was after a more general audience (And probably more geared towards FF fans in general?) and I bet he'll still have 'high drama', if that's what it's called, in the game.

But in talking about this, I've put my finger on one of the things I dislike about crossovers in a high fantasy like this--this idea of "traversing worlds" altogether.

I personally have no problem with traversing worlds/dimensions, since it's not outside the realm of possibility in this universe. Atomos and the Mother Crystal itself being prime examples. Atomos can summon creatures from the Void and spit them out in our world. The Mother Crystal is, apparently, able to summon us and other, presumably, adventurers into it's presence (At least their minds, anyways) with fairly little effort. (See the CS after attending the party with your starting Nation's GC leader, I think) It's not that big of a stretch to assume that, under duress, the Mother Crystal can reach farther than just our world. Let's not forget that Lightning herself can traverse time (or is it dimensions? Both?).

[Yumi_Hibiki]

snip

glad i could make you feel privileged^^
i hope you enjoy being part of the 10% of the compainers that dont want a crossover at all opposed to the 90% that are just butt devestated because its lightning and not cloud or squall.
a blind man could see that,
just because that is not the case for you personally doesnt make it less true.

[SkyeWindbinder]

glad i could make you feel privileged^^
i hope you enjoy being part of the 10% of the compainers that dont want a crossover at all opposed to the 90% that are just butt devestated because its lightning and not cloud or squall.
a blind man could see that,
just because that is not the case for you personally doesnt make it less true.

And now you're stating comparisons in statistics between people who do want crossovers and people who don't (statistics that are in no way backed up), and your thoughts about people complaining because they wanted another character instead of Lightning (an opinion based more on half-baked speculation and spawned from an attempt to divert than it is based on any kinds of facts whatsoever).

So basically, you back up your argument that has practically no standing with more arguments that have even less standing...

Ooookay, I can see where this is going. Let me guess, next you'll claim that people who are voicing their concerns over this subject are just people who simply didn't like FFXIII. Then someone will point out how stupid that is, while another person will point out that they really didn't have a problem with FFXIII, then you'll claim that people who are not 100% for the idea of this crossover are just ungrateful complainers who should not play the game if they don't like it, then that will be countered by pointing out the obvious logic that just because someone doesn't agree with one aspect of the game does't mean they don't like the game or want to play it...

...I'm sorry, I didn't mean to post so many spoilers. It's just that, I've seen your kind of posts before, and I can predict it's path as sure as I can the sun coming up in the east and setting in the west. LOL

[Yumi_Hibiki]

snip

you have quite the colorful imagnation, im glad you know me well enough to put all those words in my mouth

fact is if you actively look around the vast majority of complainers is bitching because its lightning not because its a crossover.
thats my point here, nothing more, nothing less

but your little fanfiction was interesting to read as well, glad we are above petty insults and strawman building ^~^

[Ferth]

You can say what you like about Skye's retort, Yumi... But at the end of the day you still made up a statistic in a weak attempt at painting anyone who is against the notion of cross-overs of this nature in a derogatory light to weaken the argument as a whole.

You can dissemble all you want, but a faulty argument is a faulty argument. Admit you got caught and move on.

[Yumi_Hibiki]

You can say what you like about Skye's retort, Yumi... But at the end of the day you still made up a statistic in a weak attempt at painting anyone who is against the notion of cross-overs of this nature in a derogatory light to weaken the argument as a whole.

You can dissemble all you want, but a faulty argument is a faulty argument. Admit you got caught and move on.

i have no problem whatsoever if you are against the very idea of crossovers, but for every person that is concerned fot that reason you see 10 that are just hateing on it because its XIII all over the internet,
this is not a "i want crossovers and you are dumb" argument on my side, its "if you hate on it just because its not a personal favorite character of yours, you are a douchebag that tries to ruin others enjoyment"

if crossovers at all are a good idea is a whole other subject, i dont really care about them that much to be honest, im just sick of the people that feel obligated to scream in my face how much of a failure they think the XIII series is every 3 hours